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17K views 117 replies 36 participants last post by  racerevlon 
#1 ·
Hei guys, its me again with this slightly provocative statement.
How reasonable is it to lets say invest 3000 Euro in a boutique amp for an average guitar player. There is that expression saying "its all in the fingers" which ultimately isn`t quite correct because the fingers just do what your brain tells them, so its ultimately in the brain.
But to make a long story short do we really sound "3200 Euro better" with a 3500 Euro Cornford than with a 300 Euro Peavey Valveking. I am not so sure especially if you use a POD or something like that to boost/ modify your Valveking.
Ok last but not least its an individual decision if you think that invesmtent is worth it or not. But imagine you would know you die in exactly 12 month and you had to choose between the Peavey Valveking and one bottle of quality wine each evening + a 2 weeks trip to the Seychelles or no wine and no trip and just the expensive boutique amp.
What would you choose. Is the tone difference really worth 3000 Euro?
 
#2 ·
Here's how it works with guitar stuff (and most things you buy). You get what you pay for up to a point. Then you pay a very high premium for just a little improvement, say 10%. Is that extra money worth it? Sure it is if you can afford it.
As for question 2 I don't drink wine so I'll take the amp.
 
#8 ·
Regarding classical guitars which i have a better clue you can for example buy a Contreras, a Hauser or a Fleta for 30000 Euro. That thing will sound "maybe 1500 Euro" better than a 1500 Euro Bernabe.
I question if its worth it even if you have the money. Which name could be worth paying that amount of money for?
But were goes the line for amps where you don`t get that much of a better sound but pay mostly for the brandname?
I would say regarding classical guitars you can safely get you a very!! good deal for 3000 Euro with a guitar you never will regret that you bought regarding price performance ratio. Beyond that you just get a relatively marginal better guitar no matter if you pay 10000 or 50000. Exceptions may confirm the rule. just my humble opinion.
 
#6 ·
I don't want expensive equipment! I want good equipment. If good equipment was cheap, I would take that all day long over the expensive stuff. That is why we play Ibanez, right? Korean Ibanez = or > anything Gibson or Fender ever made. Prestige/J-custom Ibanez > any other production guitar.

That is why I like Zachary stuff. Awesome handmade goodness for the same price or less than a ho-hum run of the mill PRS, or any custom shop really. Plus a builder that is passionate about what he does.

The biggest difference between a Squire and a USA Fender is the sticker on the headstock. Same with Epiphone and Gibson.

Amps can be a real rip off. For $3500 They should be able to open it up and show you where it took them two weeks to hand wire and solder each connection. By technician that gets paid a livable wage.
 
#15 ·
If you change your mind about the wine and the holiday, you're not going to get your money back are you? ;)

But you can always sell the nice amp and buy another. Most high-end stuff holds its value pretty well.

So you buy a $3k amp, play it for a year, and sell it for $2.5k..... that's a whole year of rockin' for $500. Can't say fairer than that...
 
#18 ·
If you change your mind about the wine and the holiday, you're not going to get your money back are you? ;)

But you can always sell the nice amp and buy another. Most high-end stuff holds its value pretty well.

So you buy a $3k amp, play it for a year, and sell it for $2.5k..... that's a whole year of rockin' for $500. Can't say fairer than that...[/QUOTE

Well put Voodoo. That is my reasoning with my gear.
 
#17 ·
Here is my take...I can give you both perspectives...

I have 2 residences. One is in Maine and the other is in Vegas. I keep my high end stuff in Maine for more the humid & guitar friendly climate and lower crime rate.

My rig in Maine is a Jem7VWH into a Peterson VSS Stomp Strobe Tuner into a Boss CH1 Chorus into a Boss DD3 Delay into a Randall Lynchbox (Blackface, Plexi, and XTC modules) and matching 412 cab. I use (2) 12' Monster Studio Pro 1000 cables and (2) 8" Studio Pro 1000 patch cables. I have about $2000 in the guitar. $2600 in the amp, modules, and cab. I have about $400 in the pedals and about $280 in the cables. So, I have almost $5300 invested in that rig. It is a nice feeling knowing you have top of the line gear and it does sound great as well. I have a few other guitars there I didn't include, but mostly just use the white Jem. The others are more "collectables" that stay in their cases.

In Vegas, I have a MIJ Ibanez RGR450LTD that I run into a solid state Hughes & Kettner Matrix 100 head (w/ built in effects) w/ matching 412 cab. I have a little Korg CA 30 chromatic pocket tuner. I only use (1) 12' Monster Rock Cable. I also bought deluxe gig bag w/ the guitar. So I have $450 in the guitar, $750 in the amp & cab, $20 in the tuner, $40 in the cable, and $45 in the gig bag. So,I have just over $1300 in that rig.

So, 2 rigs & $4000 differance in price and I won't lie...I use and enjoy my $1300 rig more in my spare time. Here are 2 reasons why...

1) I have to let the tube amp warm up, run all the cables, and plug in the adapters. I don't like the mess of cables laying all over, so when I'm done, I coil them up and put them away. It only takes a couple of minutes but sometimes that 2 mins is enough to make me say "Ah, I'll play a little later", and I usually don't. While in Vegas, I just grab the guitar and the 1 cable, plug in, and hit the on switch and play.

2) I have high expectations of my expensive rig and spend more time tweaking everything than playing. Tube amps can be "fussy" and don't always sound the same everytime you play them. I'm always tweaking the 2 effect pedals as well. As for the cheap rig, there is less there to adjust and it sounds exactly the same everytime. I also don't have nearly as high of expectations as I do the expensive rig. (It sounds better than you think it would too!).

So, what I'm saying is that I don't believe it is as much of an issue of "a waste of money " as the issue of "Can you justify spending the $?". If you are a pro musician and are looking to play big gigs and maybe get signed, spend the extra $....and it's a tax write-off and it's your career. If it's just a hobby and you have accepted that you missed your ride years ago (like me)...maybe spending big isn't the best thing to do.
 
#19 ·
Here is my take...I can give you both perspectives...

I have 2 residences. One is in Maine and the other is in Vegas. I keep my high end stuff in Maine for more the humid & guitar friendly climate and lower crime rate.

My rig in Maine is a Jem7VWH into a Peterson VSS Stomp Strobe Tuner into a Boss CH1 Chorus into a Boss DD3 Delay into a Randall Lynchbox (Blackface, Plexi, and XTC modules) and matching 412 cab. I use (2) 12' Monster Studio Pro 1000 cables and (2) 8" Studio Pro 1000 patch cables. I have about $2000 in the guitar. $2600 in the amp, modules, and cab. I have about $400 in the pedals and about $280 in the cables. So, I have almost $5300 invested in that rig. It is a nice feeling knowing you have top of the line gear and it does sound great as well. I have a few other guitars there I didn't include, but mostly just use the white Jem. The others are more "collectables" that stay in their cases.

In Vegas, I have a MIJ Ibanez RGR450LTD that I run into a solid state Hughes & Kettner Matrix 100 head (w/ built in effects) w/ matching 412 cab. I have a little Korg CA 30 chromatic pocket tuner. I only use (1) 12' Monster Rock Cable. I also bought deluxe gig bag w/ the guitar. So I have $450 in the guitar, $750 in the amp & cab, $20 in the tuner, $40 in the cable, and $45 in the gig bag. So,I have just over $1300 in that rig.

So, 2 rigs & $4000 differance in price and I won't lie...I use and enjoy my $1300 rig more in my spare time. Here are 2 reasons why...

1) I have to let the tube amp warm up, run all the cables, and plug in the adapters. I don't like the mess of cables laying all over, so when I'm done, I coil them up and put them away. It only takes a couple of minutes but sometimes that 2 mins is enough to make me say "Ah, I'll play a little later", and I usually don't. While in Vegas, I just grab the guitar and the 1 cable, plug in, and hit the on switch and play.

2) I have high expectations of my expensive rig and spend more time tweaking everything than playing. Tube amps can be "fussy" and don't always sound the same everytime you play them. I'm always tweaking the 2 effect pedals as well. As for the cheap rig, there is less there to adjust and it sounds exactly the same everytime. I also don't have nearly as high of expectations as I do the expensive rig. (It sounds better than you think it would too!).

So, what I'm saying is that I don't believe it is as much of an issue of "a waste of money " as the issue of "Can you justify spending the $?". If you are a pro musician and are looking to play big gigs and maybe get signed, spend the extra $....and it's a tax write-off and it's your career. If it's just a hobby and you have accepted that you missed your ride years ago (like me)...maybe spending big isn't the best thing to do.
Thanks for that contribution..... you really made yor point.
I have promised a salesman that i would decide myself tomorrow whether i would buy the Mesa Roadster which he reserved for me or not.
Its kind of get the best or get some decent but cheap stuff (together with a POD).
I am still not sure how to choose.
 
#22 ·
To be honest i don`t think i played a Yairi as far as i can remeber. Played a lot of Classical guitars and the ones i remember most are the following: Bernabe M5 and 10.
http://www.benelly.nl/Scripts/prodlist.asp?idCategory=4&musicstyle=9&brand=10

Loved both. Know some other people who compared it to a lot of the Ramirez stuff and everyone i know including myself sais the same: The Bernabe is the better guitar. I played some Alhambra guitars which are quite ok priced, the one i played which i don`t remember the name of was a very fine guitar to a decent price (about 1600 euro). But you can get yorself even cheaper guitars that will give you good playability and a fine, well balanced tone. Played a lot of them but can`t remeber all the brands. As i said those who really excelled were the Bernabe guitars. I myself bought a handmade guitar from the german Lucier Franziska Koessl. Excellent guitar with regard to tone. Unfortunately french finish, don`t like that at all. The downside with my guitar is that its corpus is a little smaller compared to a normal sized guitar which makes it a little bit more difficult to play for me. But i get a lot of praise for its tone and considered that the guitar is handmade it wasn`t expensive at all, i payed 1500 euro for 3 years ago. Ramirez the probably most renowned classical guitar builder has a lot of guitars with very varying quality. lot of the Ramirez stuff isn`t build from Ramirez luthiers but from Burguet and others (I think Alhmabra too). So basically you pay a lot for the name here, but!! they have extremley fine guitars, had the chance to play on a Centenario for about a year ago. That was really an incredibly sounding guitar!!! But that stuff is definitively out of my price range.
The best tip from me would be go and try out everything you find and buy the guitar you like best. There are some aspects to consider when buying a classical guitar and size is one of it. Tremolo playing is much easier with my 100 Euro guitar than with my handbuild guitar. But!! that handbuild guitar sounds much !!! better than the 100 Euro thing. And last but not least, know a guy who bought himself a Contreras. Didn`t use a humiidifier and stored the guitar near an oven. Guess what happened? That guitar costed him 12000 Euro. Not every expensive classical is a good guitar and vice versa.
If you are into classical i recommend you the Colonna homepage :
http://www.mauriziocolonna.com/
In my humble opinion together with Barrios the most talented guitar player/componist ever!
Hope i could help you a little.
 
#23 ·
I think cheap gear is a waste of money. I always laugh when I go to someones house and instead of one nice guitar they have 4 or 5 cheap ones, as if quantity of guitars makes up for quality, and instead of enjoying the nice gear they have some people (maybe, maybe not thread starter) decide to just go to forums and discuss whether expensive gear is worth it, or try to convince others their $200 whatever is just as good as their friends $1500 whatever.
 
#25 ·
I know a guy who owns at least 7 stagg/other random make guitars and basses. You know the kind, ones that have see through bodys off **** etc. He actually looks down on me when we talk guitars for "only" owning 3 electric guitars currently...

His staggs + Marshall MG 15 Watt + Some no name plastic distortion pedal > my 30 year old mint Strat, Rg 2550 and Marshall TSL Full stack w/pedals aparently.

Not that I argue of course.
 
#27 ·
Its not directed at you specifically, but like I said any gear forum you go to there are threads like this. People putting down expensive gear, and people who have it. Saying things like you are just paying for a name, or the people with nice gear are suckers. On the otherhand, if people with nice gear say anything remotely negative about cheap gear, they are looked at like they are *******s.
 
#34 ·
i dont see any point in spending over 1500 on any guitar ... period . I custom assembled my own guitar , had it custom painted and all that jazz and it still cost around 1100 , for something totally what i wanted .

amps on the other hand are a different story . They are hard(er) to assemble , and are much much more effected by the parts used , and generally the more expensive the parts are the better they are because of the demand placed on them . If i had the cash to burn i could see myself spending more on then 1500 on an amp and feel justified for doing so .
 
#37 ·
i dont see any point in spending over 1500 on any guitar ... period.
because you have the money and want the guitar. I have a Custom Shop LP, and if I had the money I would buy another, it IS that much better than everything else I have played. I dont care that I'm not making a ton of money playing it, it gives me time to do something I enjoy(the OTHER thing I enjoy, playing guitar), completely undisturbed for a few hours, to me that is worth more than any vacation or bottle of wine.
 
#41 ·
Here's my take, it's not much, but since you asked...

If you suck, and you buy a $3500 rig, you have great "tone" while sucking. If you can rip, you can rip on anything. If you buy a $99 rig, you'll lack "tone" but still sound good. Now, with that said. An amp with great tone will motivate you to practice and write cooler songs. It'll bring out the best in you and make you want to get out on stage and tear it up for the masses. A $99 amp won't. The $99 amp will make you work harder for your own "hand tone" and work to get every note out. There is something to be said for a little practice amp. I think everyone should have one, not just a 120 watt tube head. Petrucci has phenomenal tone, and ALOT of expensive gear to get that tone on stage. Timmons, he's a pedal and any head kind of guy, with amazing tone.

Life ain't a dress rehearsal brother. Work hard and get the rig you want. But at the same time, make that rig sing, and not just to you.
 
#42 ·
I've played hundreds of, and now own three PRS's, and I can't honestly say that I have ever played one that fell into the ho-hum run of the mill category..... they don't qualify as cheap, but again you really get what you pay for. Come to it, the SE series DO qualify as cheap, and they are exceptionally good for what you pay - a good example of great gear that you don't pay a lot for.
 
#43 · (Edited)
a good example of great gear that you don't pay a lot for.
but are they on par with a regular PRS? Can both be "great" if one clearly outshines the other? It may be a good price for what you get, but, although I havent played an SE, I'd be willing to be it just isnt a PRS in any way than the name. TO me "great gutiar for the money" clearly signifies, not as good as what it's modeled after, but a decent attempt.
 
#45 ·
I recently decided to buy the head of my choice. I wanted to pare down my setup and just play through a head into a 2X12 with very little or any effects. I ended up getting a Peavey JSX. It's everything I wanted in an amp. Nice big fat warm tube sound. Easy to dial in all sorts of good sounds. Peavey's typical bulletproof reliability. Etc...

I'll prolly still end up with the Hughes and Kettner triamp or a Boogie mark IV, (or both) but for roughly 1/3 the triamp and 1/2 the Mark I scored an amp that makes me smile every time I plug in.
 
#50 ·
Something that's taken me a long time to realise it's what's been said earlier. The amp and cab REALLY matters. I have guitars ranging from an Epiphone SG to a Gibson Les Paul Standard. Both have been modded to my specs, both play really well and both sound great. Quite a way apart in terms of value, but both are gig worthy and recordable.

I've had a few amps over the years:

Peavey practice amp
Marshall 8080 combo
Marshall JTM 30 combo
Marshall JTM60 combo
Laney GH50L head

I now use early 70s Laney Klipp heads live and they have a great vintage tone. Top quality components, and point-to-point wiring means easy maintenance etc. You can really hear the difference of good components. I use 1936 and 1960 Marshall cabs, not the cheaper ones, as they sound a lot better - more solid with a greater depth of tone.

For me, having a great amp that sounds superb makes me feel better when I'm playing, so I play better. Plus I enjoy it more.

If you're on a limited budget, I would always advise investing in the best amp you can. Guitars can be easily upgraded afterwards. Amps can't so to get the best tone for the buck, get a great amp.

Buy the Mesa ;)
 
#52 ·
Dee said:
Buying lots of expensive gear doesn't really mean sh*t if you can't use it to it's full potential
But if the person with the 3 stacks, 6 cabs and Custom Shop Les Paul can afford it and is enjoying him/herself then that's all that matters. You only live once, have fun if it makes you feel like a rock star :)

As Dee says, guitarists can be egotistical but they can also be very jealous.
 
#56 ·
I couldn't care less if someone buys an expensive LP and a bunch of Marshall stacks and can't play very well (or has 'no talent'..:roll:)

No more than I care if the guy driving the fancy car has the skills and reaction times of Michael Schumacher, or the guy buying some titanium golf club can hit a ball as well as Tiger Woods.

Anybody who does care about these things is probably jealous. Jealousy is a nasty emotion and a waste of time, get over it.
 
#57 ·
LOL. You really think I'm jealous of some goon with a pile of expensive gear and no talent? You're dreaming. I have confidence in my abilities as a musician and I'll hold my own against anyone you want to mention. I'll take the sh*tty gear and rip them a new hole, then we'll see who gets the respect at the end of the day. You obviously know nothing about me. No jealousy here, thank you very much.
 
#58 ·
LOL. You really think I'm jealous of some goon with a pile of expensive gear and no talent? ......
.... You obviously know nothing about me.
All I know is what you give me to go on. You're putting down some guy because he has 'no talent'. Thats snobbery and arrogance right there.. :roll:

Why are you using this guy as an example? - Because he has a Custom Les Paul and a bunch of Marshalls. There's jealousy for you...

Snobbery, arrogance and jealousy. Not a happy man from the sounds of it...?
 
#62 ·
I knew based on the title of this thread that it would come to this LOL.
Voodoo, I don't think Dee is picking on anyone specifically, he is just saying there is probably someone out there that has high end LPS and Marshalls that thinks they are great because of the gear they play - not their talent. I've sold very high end gear to wealthy beginners who could afford it. For some, buying high end gear up front motivates them to become good enough to justify having it. I have often had middle aged adults tell me "This is something I have really wanted to learn for a long time now and I'm going to stick with it. So, I just want to buy a great guitar now and hold on to it rather than keep upgrading". Those people have the money and they are helping keep the economy rolling. If people had to take a playing ability exam to qualify to be good enough to own a Jem, Ibanez would probably have to stop making them. There is a "dream factor" that goes with these high end instruments for a lot of people. Like I've said, I could be content with mid-line gear. I gave up on the dream (in 1992 LOL). I might play in a local cover band at a dive bar once a month but thats about it. If it makes you happy and takes you away for a few moments and you can afford it - ah hell - why not buy what you really would love to have?
 
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