Framus Dragon 4x12/2x12 Vintage30 cabs low prices

[Silverburst]

I sold my combo and I'm working towards a decent 19" rack, problem is I'm going to run out of money when I'll hit the cabinet section, so I came across these Framus dragon cabs with Vintage30s at very reasonable prices compared to other brands. The 4x12 are available at the price of 4 Vintage30's bought separately. Anyone any experience with these cabs ?

http://www.framus.com/amp_dragon-412-an-cab.php

Thx

[Darin]

What are the reasonable prices?

[satchboogeyman]

Everything that I have seen with the name Framus was exspensive but I know a guy that has(had) all kinds of Framus stuff he says they pretty good but not as good as Bogner cabs.

[Silverburst]

Wel, here in Europe, some prices with typical marshallas as reference :
-Marshall 1960AV with 4x12 Vintage30's is : 799€ (1020$)
-Marshall 1936V with 2x12 Vintage30's is : 529€ (676$)
-Hughes & Kettner CC 412 A 30 with 4x12 Vintage30's is : 1020€ (1304$)
-Framus Dragon with 4x12 Vintage30's is : 499€ (637$)
-Framus 212-CS with 2x12 Vintage30's is : 299€ (382$)

Framus is about 60% of the price of a Marshall, letting brands as Mesa, Engl... out of the picture. Framis is german, like Hughes & Kettner.

A single bulk Celestion Vintage30 is about 120€ (153$)

Pretty resonable for Vintage30s cabs imo.

[Silverburst]

European products might be more expensive in US, but that's not always the case since 1$=0.78€
The oposite is sure true :/ a Mesa 4x12 vintage cab : 1222€ (1560$!!!), think it's not even 1000$ in the US

[sanchez]

Framus Dragon cabs are terrific. However if I was buying one I would change the input plug in the back as they are crap and have caused some amps to blow.

[voodoo_child]

You need to do some googling pmike i could knock E150 of your marshall 1936V price and E150+ off the 1960AV

My favorite european mesa dealers site is offline at the minute, but i reckon your mesa 4x12 price is E300-400 too high as well.

You could get two vintage 30s for a little over the price you quote for one also.

Shop around, and never pay recommended prices
Regards

[Ayrton]

This brings up something that has me asking what is the difference. I have only owned one 4x12 cabinet in my life, but I understand speakers. If you take several cabinets, all made with the same birch plywood, made with the same internal volume, the basic design, and the same Vintage 30 speakers, how different could they sound? I mean does a Marshall cabinet sound that much different than a Boogie cabinet with the same speakers? I am talking only about the cabinet with the same speakers.

[ibanezcollector]

well the problem Ayrton is, no matter how close of a tolerence either has there is going to be subtle differences. No speaker has the exact same mechanical specs, QTS, RE, etc because everything is wound around the voice coil and subtle differences in wire, magnet strength etc will make slight changes. Do yourself a little test go measure the impedance on a speaker with a multimeter dont be surprised to see a 16ohm Celestion read something like say 10ohms or 20ohms.. Touch the cone slightly and watch it jump in ohms. Even though its labeled as 16ohms it may not be anywhere near it. Its not a quality control thing its just how it works with speakers. There mechanical specs are close to thiele specs supplied with most speakers but its not exact.

Also the same goes for wood, each piece of wood has its own set of differences as in grain tightness, age, is there any voids, is it baltic birch or a different variety of birch, etc.

So from cab to cab and speaker to speaker each will have a slight tonal difference. Its impossible to duplicate every cab/speaker the same.

[Ayrton]

Brett, I know you think like I do coming from car audio, but outside of normal variances (speaker and wood), is there really a hard difference? I mean you can have two of the exact same model amps, or cabinets, and there may be some tonal difference.

I mean there is a $350 difference between a Marshall 4x12 and a Carvin 4x12 with the same exact speakers, and Bogner wants more than double the Carvin price. Also, you and I both know in the car audio world, there are many high quality speakers that sound better than the “fashion” speakers, so why not in guitar speakers?

I am just thinking players could be getting themselves a nice sounding cabinet for much less than they think.

[ibanezcollector]

I agree and to be honest most comes from the ego filled musicians that think that the Marshall cab is got some sort of mystical mojo coming.

I would say, besides the speakers and wood, the only seperating quality from all the manufactures would be quality of construction. Now who has the best that I can not answer.

And im going to run for cover with this one but here it goes "A lot of the price tag is name"

ok got to go LOL

[Ayrton]

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

[Silverburst]

voodoo_child : hmm, could send me a link ? I've been googling around for sure, Mustic Store in Germany seems to have very decent prices, and delivery to belgium is free above 100€. If you talk about Marshall shops in uk, since Marshall is Brittish, they have better prices for sure. Problem for international delivery is the weight and size of cabs of course.

there is indeed a difference in wood, construction (screws, gleu, dovtail joints...), acoustic material etc, but frankly when I see a Marshall on the inside... can'sst say that I see somthing that justifies the higher price, as for the speakers, they are the same celestions.

[PortCityMusic]

The difference in price could be several things. Choice of woods. Not all birch ply is the same quality. The glue is a contributiong factor. The better the quality the higher the price and usually the better sound comes with that price. It really comes down to quality control. As a cabinet manufacturer myself and the fact that through the years I have owned or played most the cabinets out there, the small things do make a big difference.