Getting good gain out of the Legacy - Good tone, no doubt, b

[floydJ]

Hello all,
I just recieved my Legacy head from Carvin today. *After about 3 hours of play testing I'm just a little disappointed. *It's got a very good tone, sounds a whole lot better than my old setup (boss metalzone paired with boss 7 band eq) but i'm not sure if its what I've been looking for.

I'm very pleased with the clean channel, but it's the lead channel that I'm having issues with. *I'm really trying to nail a tone with a lot of gain (not buckets and buckets of gain like a dual recto or something), a la "juice" or something similar, where the harmonics will really squeal and sing out. *All I've been able to get so far is just a peep (well, more than a peep of course, but you get my drift). *Even at high volumes (around 6 or 7, which is deafening, whether the gain is at 5 or 6 or even at 8 or 9, I can't seem to get enough "juice" out of this thing.

Again, I like the tone, but to me it's more of a mild overdrive. *I wasn't expecting this amp to be the ultimate in high gain but I thought it would be a little more over the top. *I'm not trying to get Steve Vai's tone, just a good tone (which the Legacy has) but with some more balls. *Is there anything that I can add to it to help it along? *Maybe someone could share their Legacy setups?

Oh yeah, I'm running an RG570 direct into the amp for now, and the amp into a Randall 4x12 cab. *I'm installing Evolutions into the guitar later on in the week which I hope will help out a bit (upgrading from stock V8's, yes you can laugh at me now). *

Thanks for reading,
FJ

[jay ratkowski]

Unfortunately, you've come to the same roadblock that many tube amp players in need of gain find themselves at.

What you need is power amp tube distortion. *That is the really singing distortion that you get when the power amp tubes are driven to the point of overdriving. *That however, will probably not happen on a Legacy until the volume is at 8 or 9. *If you want to keep this amp, I suggest looking into a power break... I personally have never used one, but they will get the job done (your amp will still be very loud however). *I'm sure someone else can give you more suggestions.

[AJ Love]

wouldn't a pedal get you there like the Boss SD-1 or the Ibanez TS-9 or a Hotcake??

Vai uses the Boss pedal

[floydJ]

OUCH. *wow 5 or 6 is enough to give my ears the same feeling I had when I exited the last G3 concert lol *I've been using the 50w setting too. *I think my main problem is that when I turn the amp up too loud, the sound starts bouncing off the walls of my living room and it just turns into a mess of sounds. *

I've tried using my Metalzone together with the legacy (legacy high gain, metalzone low gain) and it just turned into a feedbacking ear-splitting mess. *I don't think the Metalzone was made to be used with any other distortion affects. *I'll have to try out my brother's daddy-o and hard rock distortion later.

Maybe the Legacy is just too much for any type of home-use situation. *

Do most of you guys go digital or solid state at home, and save the tube amps for the stage? *I've read that many people find even a 25 or 30 watt tube amp to be too much. *For most of my playing I don't really want to get any louder than say a loud playing stereo system. *

[rickboot]

Actually Vai uses a Boss DS-1. Check out his rig here:

http://www.virtualguitarmagazine.com/Vai_MK/VAI_MK.htm

You can even make out his Legacy settings in the pics.

Too bad he is using that tone robbing Xwire wireless. It's a digital tone sucker you know!

[Rich]

That would be the 50milliamp all tube head I've been waiting for someone to build.

[jay ratkowski]

I'm actually thinking of building my own low wattage tube amp... maybe like 10 watts through a 12" speaker...

It's the fear of electrocution that keeps me from beginning the job. *I know too many people who have friend themselves working on tube amps, so I am weary.

You're right Rick, the XWire sucks up tone like mad. *haha... actually it still seems to be fairly transparent. *I think I'm going to do some more side-by-side testing tonight.

As for the DS-1, a lot of people use it as a lead-boost... I don't know how well you'd enjoy it as an all-the-time distortion helper.

[jem10]

Maybe you have seen this already if not it could be interesting.

These are Vai's amp setting apparently...

http://www.carvin.com/vai/settings.html

[Devine]

Wattage is a deceiving thing; the relationship between power and volume is not a direct one. *A 10-watt amp is definitely not a 50 watt monster, but the disparity in volume is actually smaller than one might think. *I have a good website that explains this in detail, unfortunately I can't find the link; I'll post it later.

-Devin

[lgascoig]

When you double the power from 50W to 100W you get +3db. *Check out www.amptone.com for a discussion about the tradeoff of power versus volume. *It covers all of the different ways you can possibly try to get power tube overdrive at reasonable volumes. *I think I've given up my quest and I'll just stick with preamp overdrive...

[luther]

I've been off on a Vai mode for the past three weeks, *and have found some absolutely killer sounds out of my Marshall DSL 50 watt 2000 head. *I'm also using a Ibanez TS-9, *Boss DS-1, *and an Ensoniq DP/4 for delay/reverb.

There are a few noteworthy things about what I have been doing:

1) I play in a home studio, *so it is not out of control with volume
2) The signal goes TS-9 --> DS-1 --> Amp--> effects loop (DP) --> amp
3) I have found that maxing the gain on the clean channel, *while keeping the volume low on the amp is Vai like, *especially when using the TS-9.
4) TS-9 settings: *Tone 30%, *Drive 80%, *Level 75%
5) For true high gain sound (still on the clean channel), *I keep the tS-9 on, *and also click in the DS-1.
6) DS-1 settings: *Tone 10%, *Level 100%, *Drive 60%
7) For a more saturated dist sound, *I turn off the DS-1, *and switch to the Marshall lead channel.
I've had great results by using the Lead 1 setting on the Marshall with Gain at 90%, *and once again volume low.
9) The signal BEFORE all of this is going thru a Bad Horsie Wah.

As I said before, *this setup is quiet if need be, *or bodacious tone in your face by just turning up the volume on either channel. *It is an extremely dynamic rig, *which is*required to play a lot of Vai sounds.

I also switched cabs from my Marshall 4x12 to a Mesa 2x12 w/Vintage 30s - that was a very sweet change.

If I were you, *I'd try the TS-9 and DS-1 in front of what you are doing. *I hate playing my amp without the TS-9 option, *and recently am very psyched with the DS-1 as well.

Luther

[jay ratkowski]

I'm actually thinking of changing the layout to a 2x12. *10 watts powering 2 12" speakers will still be LOUD, but it is a lot easier to drive the power tubes at reasonable volumes.

[one less than none]

Jay some company (i think it is THD) make a product calle dyellowjackets that allow you to use a preamp type tube as a power tube.

It could be what you are looking for, i haven't tried them myself but they sound a good idea

[AJ Love]

ah yes the Boss DS-1, I stand corrected

I can't imagine trying to get good gain out of a big tube amp WITHOUT using a pedal really

its a constant struggle for me as most of the clubs and bars I play in are pretty small

[jay ratkowski]

Quote: from one less than none on 4:52 pm on Aug. 1, 2001
Jay some company (i think it is THD) make a product calle dyellowjackets that allow you to use a preamp type tube as a power tube.

It could be what you are looking for, i haven't tried them myself but they sound a good idea

That is quite intersting... I was thinking of just using a nice low wattage power amp tube... but I could use some really interesting preamp tubes if what you say works well. *It is something to experiement with. *I don't recall hearing of this before, but it could have just slipped my mind. *I'll have to start hanging around Ampage some more.