Good live tone - DI box experiences? (Palmer PDI-09 etc)

[Toadfish]

Hey there.

I'm considering buying something like a Palmer PDI-09 or similar to take away the headache and hit and miss results of getting a good miced sound at gigs by random soundmen.

Anyone have any experience of using this kind of device, good or bad?

Sukh

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[Toadfish]

Nobody out here had any experience with a PDI-09? How about some of the other Palmer speaker emulators?

Looks like I'm going to have to take one for the team and post a review then!

[Vim Fuego]

Don't know about the palmer, but I have used and recommend the Behinger Ultra-G GI100 http://www.behringer.com/GI100/index.cfm?lang=eng It plugs inline with the speaker cable and provides switchable 4x12 emulation. it can be powered by either battery or from XLR phantom power.
Costs about 30 quid!
Jim

[Toadfish]

Thanks Jim - I'll check that out.

[Racerx2k]

When I had my rack, I used to use two Peavey EDI boxes, mic'd my rig in stereo, and mixed the combination. Sounded best that way.

[albee1952]

Hughes and Kenttner (however its spelled) makes a DI box called the REDBOX that works quite well. As i recall, it can patch from a line out or a speaker out of any amp head. There are a few versions (like redbox II and redbox III) that also run on phantom power. Not sure what other changes they may have done. I used the original several years back and was happy enough with it. It does beat a trashed mic or bad placement by neophyte sound guys.

[Toadfish]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

In looking at all this stuff, and other stuff by Palmer, the PDI-03 has also caught my eye.

Looks like this might be the one for me - if it does what the reviewers say, it'll let me capture my amp's tone well for recordings as well as providing a quality signal for FOH at gigs.

This will also hopefully save me going down the POD route again for recording, which I never really got on with that well (I used to have one when I lived in the States, but sold it when I moved back to England - was in the market for one again for recording but have been hesitating as it never really did it for me).

Any experiences with the PDI-03 anyone?

It looks well enough reviewed for me to go ahead and get one. I'll post up a review if anyone is interested later on...

[Darin]

I know a sound guy. he used to mix Fuel. which is how I met him. now he mixes DT, G3, and other top of the industry touuring bands. He loves the "palmer di". however, I don't know anything about the model(s). he prefers to use it when ever he can. his words "it doesn't sound like a mic'ec cab, it sounds like the cab". I know Carl Bell from Fuel has had HUGE tone at every show I've seen them, with the exception of the one show where he tried to use a POD Pro. that was thin and weak tone. I would definatley pursue it if I were still giggin a few times a week. it's worth a try. but remember, sound guys are the enemy. here's their motto, if they can hear the guitar, it's too loud!

[Toadfish]

Man, don't ya just love sound guys? Maybe it's just a guitarist thing, but we ALWAYS sound too low in the mix!

Thanks for the post there Darin, I know how hot you are on your tone, so that's very welcome news.

I think I'm now split between a PDI-09 (which is just a DI) or the PDI-03, which can be used for recording silently too. I can't find any comparisons online regarding the difference in simulations between the two though.

The original idea was to have something that was just to get a good, hassle-free live tone, but now I'm thinking maybe its worth splashing a bit of extra cash and getting something I can use to record my amp easier with too.

Thanks again,

Sukh

[Eggy]

In some respects I've got to agree with Darin. As guitarists we spend a lot of time, effort and money chasing the tone we realy want. Sound men can render all of that effort useless with a "tweek" of the mixer. I'm not sure if D.I. is the way to go but I'll let you into a secret on how my old band used to counter the sound guy issue.

Firstly I painted a small tip-ex white mark near the bottom right speaker on my cab. I found this spot whilst in the studio (well, the engineer actualy found it) and I knew that a mic six inches away from the cab pointing at that white mark was the place I liked so I always positioned the mic there.

I used to keep a HUGE long lead in my case that would stretch from my pedal board at the front of the stage to where the desk was (in some clubs it would get all the way to the back of the room). I didn't do the gig with that lead it was just there so I could get a handle on the mix during sound check.
I then would explain that we have our own sound engineer and that they would be arriving later on. We had a guy who would travel all over the Manchester area and come to (almost) every gig we played so we used to get him to pretend to be our sound engineer. Just before we went on I'd go with him to the desk and show him where the mixer was for the sound check and he'd just stand there during the gig and make sure nobody messed with the desk. It was perfect, he got passed beers and never had to go to the bar, he always had a good place to stand during the gig and we had the safety of knowing nobody was going to mess with our "out front" sound.

I can't tell you how many times other bands on the bill have asked if they can borrow our sound guy cos they're not happy about the way the venue's engineer was mixing them. When we told them the truth of what was going on most of them used the idea for themselves. It might just work for you too?

Ben

[albee1952]

Here's a sound guy's perspective (and like guitar players, some are great and others stink). When mixing a band, I have to put all the parts together. Sometimes what sounds great all by itself, doesn't work so well in a mix with other instruments. Lots of times, you have a keyboard player, 1 or 2 guitarists and the lead vocals all trying to occupy the same range of frequencies. Something has to give and its usually more important to get the vocals out front so that can mean EQing or turning down other instruments. The loser in my neck of the woods is the keyboards. I can't tell you how many shows I have seen where the keyboard player is flailing away and you never hear a note. Also, most guitar amps send out a tightly focused beam of sound, so try to NOT aim your amp at the sound man or he may hear you just fine and not have you up in the PA. If you are listening to recordings made off the console (and run your amp loud) you may be heard fine in the room but your guitar will not be on the recording as the sound person didn't need to turn it up in the PA to be heard. kudos for finding and marking the best spot for placing the mic as some lazy sound guys will slap a mic on the grill without even looking at where the speaker sits(real nice on a combo where a single speaker is way off center.....). If the sound person is drinking during the show, retire him as alcohol dulls the hearing (yes it dulls yours too). Best to enjoy your drink AFTER the show.