Help..Unit for 4 cable method..which doesn't ruin your tone..?

[pera_a777]

First of all, happy new year to all of you!


I am building a small rig..nothing huge..a preamp+effect unit+power amp..

Still need to make some choices..only sure thing at the moment is rocktron velocity 100 power amp..(here where i live, its hard to find tube power amps..and many other stuff..and my budget is very limited anyway)..

Concerning preamp, i am thinking about ADA mp-1..or JMP-1 maybe..although its double the price, which i think it its not worth..anyway, gonna try out and see..

The reason for this topic is EFFECT unit..

It doesnt have to be rack unit..(although it would be nice, cause i could use big external midi foot controller, probably Behringer fcb1010 or Rocktron midi mate..i like to have all the presets in front of me at once, no ****ty bank changing..)

But, since my budget is limited, and my primary concern is preamp, i am ready for some compromises..

I would like primarly a unit that can be used in 4 CABLE METHOD cause i could use its wah, compressor..and if its routable, and has pitch shiffting, i could put it in front of preamp, and use as a type of whammy..(doeasnt matter if its not as good as original sounding..)
Al this i've described sounds like Boss gx-700 i used to have..but, when i had it, i have used it for ditortions also..i wanna upgrade in that segment now..
BUT, not sure though how big the tone SUCKing would be..?

Since my budget is limited, i guess i will go for something older, since its much cheaper than current products..

So, some some rack units that can do 4cm that i know of are these..
in production:

Boss GT pro..would have to be new, so its too expensive..
Line 6 pod xt/x3 pro..the same as above..
Digitech gsp 1101..i guess the same..
Behringer V-amp pro..bleh..no, thanks..
...
I have probably have forgot some of the units..anyway, used units are much more in my reach..so, from the adds and offers, there are these, concerning racks....

So, here are the REAL options for me..!


- Digitech 21o1 artist
pros: ok price, more than enough effects,
cons: not sure if its analog preamp section can be skipped (need to check that out in a manual), no wah, although not that important-its bulky (2u)

- Boss gx-700
pros: ok price, can do ALL i need and want
cons: not sure how big is its TONE SUCKING

there are also few choices in floor-processor units..

-Boss GTs ,
pros: older units are nice priced,all of them can do everything i need..(i can get gt6 at nice price)
cons: i am very sceptic about TONE SUCKING..

-Vox Tonelab LE, Korg AX3000g, Zoom g9.2tt
pros: nice wah on Vox-Korg, not bad price-especialy KORG,zoom too expensive
cons: not routable, limited effects (no "whammy" type of effect on Vox/Korg IIRC)
..still, would like to hear MORE INFO on these units..korg AX3000g maybe could work..?!

-Line 6 pod x3 live
i know it has loop..price is no small, but if its possible to set it not to EAT the tone, than it can be in the game..a;though i would always take Boss for the same price..better effects and reliability..IMHO..although, was reading forums, people say it digitalize the tone of your amp when passed hrough it..so, i guess its a NO,NO

* One especially interesting unit that seems like perfect for everithing i need is new

Digitech RP1000!!!

PROS: amp loop input (which is hopefolly needs to be put after WAH,COMP, OD, and before ambience FX), 10 preset switches at once, tap tempo, all the fx i need, IMPORTANT thing is GOOD bypass (at least from my experience with little rp250, which is actually great as a multifunctional fx pedal, but all of the distortions are a joke..still, BYPAsS was great (amp and cab needs to be set ON, and choose Direct, IIRC)
CONS: PRICE..too expensive..still new product, wil need to see what the price would be like in here..


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Sorry fora long post..
to summ it up, at the moment, i think that it would be Boss GX-700, followed by Boss GT series..gt6 for example..
Although, that rp1000 would be maybe the smartest move for what i need..cause i think it has better bypass, which is very important for this purpose, and, again, has all the stuff i need..again, it saves me the rack space...

so, please, feel free to share any opinions with me..!

thank you very much..!

[Petie]

The GT-6 doesn't allow you to move the loop around within the patch, so you don't have much flexibility. The GT-8 DOES allow you to move the loop, so you can, say, have phaser before your amp's preamp on one patch, and after it on another. I used the GT-8 for a while and I still stand by it, but I mainly use individual pedals now, purely cos I started going through a 'collect a bunch of pedals' phase.

There are things you need to do to get the most out of the GT-8 in four cable method: Use Planet Waves 'twisted pair' cables for the amp's effect loop, and use a hum eliminator (the cheap Behringer one works fine) if you get any ground hum.

[pera_a777]

Thanks for the reply..
Routing the amp in he chain is not so important to me..i only want to use wah, and maybe compressor in front..though, i agree that it is really better to be able to route it as you wish..its stupid for gt6, cause gt5 and gx700 can route as you wish..adn they are older..i had both of them, so i know..but never trid 4cm with them..damn..
How much tone difference did occur while you were using gt-8 in 4 cable method..?
Whats special about that "twisted pair" cables..?
tnhx

[Vim Fuego]

I use the four cable method for connecting my gt-10 to my tube amp (I have the wah etc. before the pre-amp, amd the delays etc. after) I used to have a gt-8. I've never used the gt distortions live, only when practising/recording.
The big problem with this method is making sure the send and return and in and out levels are set correctly, for instance the send of the gt needs to be about the same as a guitar level as it goes into the amp. The return is really the tricky one as it will have been amplified by the pre-amp. If you don't lower the return level then you'll get clipping in the effects after the return this will suck your tone bad! The output level must not be too high otherwise your power amp will clip.
In summary providing you set the send and return levels correctly and to a lesser extent the input and output, and, you turn off any effects you don't need your basic tone should be retained. I can only spreak for the boss units (I too had a gx700) and when set up they're fine.
Jim

[pera_a777]

Thanks man for the reply..
Yeah, i am aware that setting of the levels is crucial..usually, what seems like a tone sucking is actually loosing of the level..well, not just that, but mostly that..
what about gx-700..? have you tried it in this setup..?
also, any opinions gx-700 vs gt-8..? or some other latter GT unit..?
thanx!