How much for THAT tone.

[Pablo]

I was reading some of the "What Amp should I buy" or "What distortion pedal" topics and had a thought. How important is tone to some people and will you pay extra to get it?

What I have seen is people will spend a lot on a guitar then run it through a crappy amp THEN buy another expensive guitar yet baulk at the thought of buying a another / better amp. Or try loads of pedals out and buy the cheapest floorboard type because it also has chorus delay AND dist even though they just want a dist pedal and really liked the expensive boutique distortion /boost pedal.

What I have noticed is the compromises people make buying Amps and Pedals and cables due to financial situations or physical size and that's fine we all do that. But what I think tends to happen is this....Someone starts out on the guitar and get an amp, usually tone doesn't even apply it's if the amp can do clean and distorted and if it can switch between the two. The guitar player get's a bit better and buys a better guitar they then start to want a better tone they then buy some dist pedals and then eventually/grudgingly they buy a better amp. Then their taste changes/develops and they do the same thing, they try to tweak the amp they have with more pedals then buy a better amp then regret spending all that money on pedals. I'm was the same.

I can get a pretty cool Andy Timmons / Satch bluesy tone from my Legacy clean channel with an Xotic AC Booster and a good all round Dist sound from the Dist Channel with a booster to give it the extra push to saturation. Ok the AC booster is fairly expensive and some will argue that a Boss OD-1 will be similar at a third of the price but that's the thing it will be similar but not as 'nice'. Another example is I wanted an octave pedal. The octave function on my Whammy just wasn't good and I'd tried a Boss but after trying an EHX Micro POG I knew I had to get that even though I'd not use it that often.

In my opinion people are overly optomistic in thinking that X amp will sound like Y sound with Z pedal which is basically false economy with cheaper gear e.g. trying to try make a Marshall valvestate sound like a mesa by adding either an EQ pedal or buying some fancy dist modeler, when they should give up on the old amp save the money they were going to shell out on pedals and buy a better amp.

Having tried out an admittedly small amount of dist pedals I mostly think they all suck (at house volumes anyway) Getting 1 pedal that will work with your clean Channel AND distortion channel I think is imposible. You always get a volume difference and the settings don't sit quite right with either channel.

I'm of the opinion that now I'd rather save up the cash and buy the better gear. And that's the advice I try to give people save up that extra cash and buy the best however they never listen and think your just being a gear snob....oh well. If I knew then what I know now I'd have saved an awful lot of money.

[Andy43]

I've paid about $2500 for all my gear, not including my pedalboard, which would cost about another $600. I know that I don't NEED gear this expensive, in fact I sometimes think about selling it for stuff cheaper. I think there are tones that are just as good, however different, that you can achieve from cheaper gear. But some tones are just damn right expensive to achieve and there are no alternatives. I guess I don't pay nearly as much as some others, which comforts me.

[rastachild]

well i think there are several factors at play here. first of all, when you are a novice you don't have a clear conception of what good tone coming directly from an amp sounds like. of course you have your idols that you want to emulate, but you don't hear all the nuances in their tone when you're just starting out. i think a good guitar is probably the most important thing to get first because if it feels good under your fingers, you will be inspired to play better. having a great amp when you are just starting out is almost pointless as noobs rarely know how to dial in good tone and won't sound great playing through it anyway.

another reason is that you can get an excellent guitar nowadays in the $700 - $1500 range (and oftentimes even cheaper when you factor in ****) whereas excellent amps will typically more expensive. so it's natural to try to make modifications in the area that is cheapest.

once you settle in with the guitar you want, you start focusing on what else is wrong with your sound and that will eventually lead to your amp. there can be a learning curve with amps, especially when you are first introduced to tube amps. i remember initially thinking some hyped tube amp sounded like crap when i first played it compared to my solid state amp at the time. of course i was playing said 100w tube amp at bedroom volume, lol.

but the search for tone is important in the growth of a guitarist. non-musicians won't really know the difference between the sound of your new set-up and your last, but you will, and when you are playing live having 'the tone' definitely has a positive influence on your playing ability.

[Hikey Mikey]

My intitial thought was "wow, great thread" but as I tried to respond I found that there were a lot of issues raised and I didn't know how to begin. So here goes with a bit of a ramble from the perspective of an adult beginner who has played for two years.

I think that the situation that you, Pablo, are talking about is inevitable and natural. Beginners can say they want to sound like this band or that guitarist, but they have no idea if they want humbuckers or single coils, solid-state or tube. They will make tone "mistakes" and will soon want a new sound, new guitar, new amp, or whatever. GAS.

Also, guitarists are fickle and contrary; today's great tone may grate on our ears tomorrow.

I agree with your statement of buying the best you can afford and not making compromises. But I don't agree with that for beginners. When we're just starting out, our ears and fingers don't know the difference between medium frets or jumbos, 10" radius or 14", 25 1/2" scale or 24 3/4". We don't know whether we want a Les Paul or a Strat or something else. So I would say to start out cheap-to-mid, meaning stay away from the $50 to $75 First Acts and other junk, but a Fender Squire or Ibanez GIO is fine. Learn how to play AND what you want to sound like, and go from there.

[Lefty Robb]

There is no such thing as "THAT" tone, like time itself, its only relative to the observer. You could spend $6000 and never get what you want, when the next guy is happy with a $80 crate and a pedal or 2.

[humpy]

This is one of the best thought out threads I've read... no one is arguing or saying this is better than that. you are all to be congratulated.

Now to the point.

A Year or so ago my band was on tour and we were in Melbourne, the home of my favourite Gibson dealer Gallins Guitars. I wanted to show the lads the shop cos we all play some form of Gibbo or Gibbo copy. Anyhow, we get to the shop and there's an assortment of LP's & such... one stands out. Awesome tiger stripe top, faultless quality build and a huge price tag. You know damn well that chances are this guitar is going to sound fantastic going straight into a JCM 800 or a Dual Rectifier or a Twin.

But one of the lads asks, "So what makes this guitar worth $10,000?" and that's just the point. His LP copy through a Boss pedal into an old Laney does him just fine and he's happy with his sound and doesn't have the need to spend on a big ticket guitar.

Personally, I was happy with $10,000 LP into a Marshall... but that's just me.

[microdmitry]

>> Awesome tiger stripe top

As if tiger stripe improved the tone any. The only thing that makes guitar cost $10000 is too much money in buyer's pocket.

[rufes]

The eternal endless discussion.....

Do what makes you happy.

[7 Dying Trees]

Yeah, i've played the gear game as well, but lately i am of the same opinion that I'll just get what i really want rather than trying to cobble together stuff to get close, as it always ends up costing more, and you just have more problems making things work, and then selling / buying.

So, may as well just get stuff you know you like, and then not have to worry about it again, and not have to spend time thinking of what you want to get next. At the moment I really can't think of anything else i want or need save a wireless, but even that is a luxury really

[Carlo]

I just buy gear now just for fun and enjoyment. I also desire better gear because I care about build quality (holding in tune, not breaking down, etc.). Buying gear to sound like your hero or emulate someone else is really not the most sensible rationale to buy gear because it's a very elusive thing, and it has more to do with the hours you put into practicing and understanding the nuance of you the guitar...rather than the amount of $$$ you spend.

[waylay00]

I don't think people research or spend enough time before they buy. I see so many people jumping on here asking which guitar they should buy, etc...Go play it for yourself! It's YOU who are going to be playing it. What if you can't test the thing before you buy? Then don't buy it if you want this to be your main guitar.

Now if you've already got a good guitar you can rely on, and you have the money to burn, then buying sight unseen isn't really a problem (although I still prefer to try before I buy).

Also, I agree 100% with the original poster regarding amps. In my opinion, amps are the main source of your tone (second to the fingers), yet so many people seem to forget the importance they have in the overall tonal equation. It baffles my mind when I see someone with a really nice tube amp, yet they go out and buy a distortion to use on the clean channel...

[Hikey Mikey]

Originally Posted by rufes

The eternal endless discussion.....

Do what makes you happy.

You have a pont, but some of us (including the original poster, I think) are wondering if there is a way to pursue happiness without wasting huge sums of money on gear. A valid concern, huh?

If we just did what made us happy, we'd all have new guitars tomorrow and most of us would be saying "yeah, but . . . " as we played them.

[rastachild]

Originally Posted by waylay00

It baffles my mind when I see someone with a really nice tube amp, yet they go out and buy a distortion to use on the clean channel...

i felt the same way...until i read an interview with satch and he said his lead tone is basically just the satchurator on the jsx clean tone. lol. maybe he's using the gain stages for rhythm, but i found it funny that even with an amp like the mighty jsx, satch wasn't happy with the distortion channels to use them for lead.

[shreddersymphony]

For me, that tone involved guitars made exactly to my specs and a pod Xt and an atomic reactor amp. I think the PODXT is an absolutely invaluable tool. My pod through my 100 dollar computer speakers sounds better than most of my friend's solid state rigs with all their pedals, and with the Atomic Reactor amp it matches pretty favorably up to any tube amp I've ever heard, not to mention that its an incredibly simple setup without tons of extra knobs and pedals to fiddle with.

The thing i've noticed is that almost any guitar sounds good through my rig. Today there are an insane amount of choices for cheap gear. You can pick up a $200 Agile guitar and a POD and have yourself a great sounding setup. Replace the pickups in it and you can have an even better setup. I played Agiles and mid-range Ibanezes until i forsook company guitars in favor of my own designs (purely for personal tone, comfort and aesthetic reasons, plenty of companys make good sounding cheap guitars); but even then I was relatively happy with my sound. It's VERY possible to have a great sounding rig for under a grand if you do your research and know what you're looking for.

[CalledToArms]

right now for my metal (ie my band and live shows) im running an S prestige through a Mesa Dual Rectifier and splawn custom 4x12. got the S new for 1200ish, put EMGs in ($200ish), splawn custom ($600 but that was with an artist discount, think it would have been about $900), and the mesa head (hard to guess the cost of it, I spent $900 to get it from a friend and it was mint and probably worth more).

So I guess that puts my show rig just above $3k without pedals and I am extremely happy with it. Certainly you could get good tone for less and you could also spend a lot more, just up to the player. I still wouldnt mind a framus or soldano for a more unique sound but im happy how I am now.

My "rock" setup still needs to be built though :P