Kahler Tremolos vs. Floyd Rose/Floating Tremolos Part A

[Mr. Killer]

I get the impression you work for Kahler. It seems as if you have just written a report for a big company. Come on man, were the 3 looooong posts really necessary? And you sound just like the youtube guy :S

I just suggest people to try these two different trems and make their own opinions. Don't believe what everybody says. A thing like "the best trem" is totally subjective.

[SilverEra]

Originally Posted by FarBeyond

which is why i have offered a hypothesis, support with evidence from experience and close analisys, and derived conclusion from that procedure, repeatable by anyone else if they take these well informed steps.

Actually, you just gave off a load of biased information, unfair comparisons and a general air of "I'm a Douchebag". Trying to find "evidence" and "close analisys" in your post is nie impossible.

When you indicate this without showing anyone where I behaved the way you claim i did, then you show faulty reasoning and fail to provide support for any of your claims.

"But nevermind me or him, go try a Kahler for yourself (most large guitar stores have 1 or 2 guitars with them) to prove any of these facts for your own self. The arguments I have presented are objective and irrefutable facts.

I know the ins and outs of both systems extensively. The arguments I have presented are objective and irrefutable facts."

It's not "faulty reasoning", just because you failed to spot what he was obviously referring to, doesn't make it faulty reasoning. Well, obvious to anyone who reads their own posts!

But I already granted two categories where floyds are the winner within, based on extensive testing. You claim I have an axe to grind against floyds without even showing examples of where I was even arrogant. And how is my belief that "Kahlers are lightyears ahead of FRs" even close to arrogant when I base such claims on the real life tests and results of both?

Wow. Two catergories. Do we really need examples of how you're biased against floyds? You're whole thread is a testament to that! If you could respond to my previous gripes with your "test", you'll find examples there. I can't believe that you have "extensive knoledge" of both trems, yet believe floyd rose has "less tone" because of it's routing. And you don't even mention NON RECESSED FLOYDS? Please.

[SilverEra]

This thread should be archived and re-titled, "How NOT to do a Comparison Test!

[toneboy]

So Mr. FarBeyond, riddle me this:

If the Kahler cam trem is "far superior" to the Floyd Rose then why isn't the Kahler cam trem more popular and on more guitars?

[dark_void86]

Unfortunately quality doesn't always will out. I am not saying the kahler is better by any means, but it has some great ideas.

But classic examples of how one company does not have a superior product but wins because of a better marketing history/team are:

VHS over Betamax
Windows over Linux
Tremel-no over Freelok
Gibson over everything else

Business has for a long time not ever really been about a solid product, but more about marketing and managing a "brand". Maverick guitars are in my mind the most recent example of a company with all the promise in the world for doing amazing things because of their product line. However the guy in charge from what i hear just didn't have a head for the business side of things. So despite getting well deserved 5 star reviews in major magazines and being pretty affordable, they just didn't manage themselves on the business side of things well enough.

But if i was to narrow the true reason why kahler, the wonderbar, the steinberger transposing tremolo and many other units didn't go as well as they might have done in an even market........

1. Floyd's are cheaper
2. Eddie Van Halen was/is considered a GOD en masse

[toshiro]

Originally Posted by toneboy

So Mr. FarBeyond, riddle me this:

If the Kahler cam trem is "far superior" to the Floyd Rose then why isn't the Kahler cam trem more popular and on more guitars?

Better question:

If the Kahler tremolo is so much better than a Floyd, why did Kahler make a Floyd copy called a Steeler, right before spending almost a decade making golf-clubs?

[Guitar GeeK]

Now, I have watched alot of his videos, and I have learned something about how he set-up his Kahlers. He atually lubricates the entire bridge, ...with chapstick, and not 3 in 1 oil, including the solders on the strings(Ernie Ball-9-42) He also tries to talk smack on Wammi J, the NO.1 Kahler installer, retailler, and luithier ON THE PLANET! Saying, and I quote "A Kahler tech suggested tightening the fork screws really hard and lowering the action as much as possible to solve the bending problem. The forks on my guitars are already super tight, and my action is super low. At least on my Kahlers, these suggestions don't solve the bending issue." Someone with a youtube accont please publish this post this on his channel.

[Mr. Killer]

Originally Posted by toneboy

If the Kahler cam trem is "far superior" to the Floyd Rose then why isn't the Kahler cam trem more popular and on more guitars?

If Steve Vai is such a great guitar player, why are the Jonas Brothers more popular than him??

To be the best doesn't necessarily mean to be the most popular.

[toneboy]

Originally Posted by toneboy

So Mr. FarBeyond, riddle me this:

If the Kahler cam trem is "far superior" to the Floyd Rose then why isn't the Kahler cam trem more popular and on more guitars?

Originally Posted by Mr. Killer

If Steve Vai is such a great guitar player, why are the Jonas Brothers more popular than him??

To be the best doesn't necessarily mean to be the most popular.

You cannot compare the popularity of two artists to the popularity of two trem systems. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

A trem is a tool and guitar players choose the best tool for the job.

[Timbaline]

Chicken vs. Beef

First of all I would like to say that this comparison is completely unbiased, this is my OFFICIAL opinion for eating Beef. Every argument I present will objective and irrefutable.

1. Taste: That's an easy one, beef tastes better!

Beef: 1,000,000
Chicken: -5,000

2. Animal where meat comes from
Cows are better than chickens
Beef: 2,000,000,000
Chicken: -10,000

3. Texture
I like the texture of beef better, but I'm gonna give chicken some points so people think that this is unbiased
Cow:1
Chicken: 1
....You know what I change my mind, chicken sucks in my opinion beef is much better.
Cow:1,000,000,000,000,000
Chicken:-1,111,111,111,222,333,444,555

Total: Beef wins

All the arguments I have presented are objective (100% test, 0% opinion) and are irrefutable facts!

[helltone]

I have played both and personally prefer a floyd rose. like most things strings,picks, pickups etc. it's all about personal preference over debating which is better.

[SilverEra]

It's the same argument over the classic "OFR vs EDGE!!!"

Just like some people prefer an Original Edge to an OFR, and claim it's "an updated design" and "a vast improvement over the Original Floyd Rose", and yet I, and many others, still prefer the OFR. Why? Because it works for me. I find it returns to zero better on pull ups, I prefer the arm holder, and just generally prefer the feel of it. No matter how much the Edge has "improved" upon the original design, I simply cannot see it. That's me, and to me, the OFR is better. It has nothing to do with what's better on paper, it's what's better in to you! in reality!

[anonamousantichrist]

nice thread!

my road dog plays a 89 gibson v with a early kahler cam tremolo. it is one of the most stable, best playing (hassle free) trems i that i have played yet.
set up is super easy to boot!

[jono]

Originally Posted by Timbaline

Chicken vs. Beef

First of all I would like to say that this comparison is completely unbiased, this is my OFFICIAL opinion for eating Beef. Every argument I present will objective and irrefutable.

1. Taste: That's an easy one, beef tastes better!

Beef: 1,000,000
Chicken: -5,000

2. Animal where meat comes from
Cows are better than chickens
Beef: 2,000,000,000
Chicken: -10,000

3. Texture
I like the texture of beef better, but I'm gonna give chicken some points so people think that this is unbiased
Cow:1
Chicken: 1
....You know what I change my mind, chicken sucks in my opinion beef is much better.
Cow:1,000,000,000,000,000
Chicken:-1,111,111,111,222,333,444,555

Total: Beef wins

All the arguments I have presented are objective (100% test, 0% opinion) and are irrefutable facts!

Sorry, can I just check that these are your "OFFICIAL" reasons? and that the reasons presented here are "OFFICIAL" !!!

[Magical Muffin]

Originally Posted by Timbaline

Chicken vs. Beef

First of all I would like to say that this comparison is completely unbiased, this is my OFFICIAL opinion for eating Beef. Every argument I present will objective and irrefutable.

1. Taste: That's an easy one, beef tastes better!

Beef: 1,000,000
Chicken: -5,000

2. Animal where meat comes from
Cows are better than chickens
Beef: 2,000,000,000
Chicken: -10,000

3. Texture
I like the texture of beef better, but I'm gonna give chicken some points so people think that this is unbiased
Cow:1
Chicken: 1
....You know what I change my mind, chicken sucks in my opinion beef is much better.
Cow:1,000,000,000,000,000
Chicken:-1,111,111,111,222,333,444,555

Total: Beef wins

All the arguments I have presented are objective (100% test, 0% opinion) and are irrefutable facts!

You forgot that since less cows are killed than chickens, beef is much more environmentally and hippie friendly!
Cow: Infinity + Pi^4
Chicken: - Infinity x Over 9000

FarBeyond reminded me directly of the youtube guy after I had read the 1st or 2nd 'category'