Kahler Tremolos vs. Floyd Rose/Floating Tremolos Part A

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by SilverEra

Saying this guy is a jackass is as much of an under-statement as "Hey. I think Hitler had an attitude problem!"

To be fair, Hitlers attitude was generally perfectly normal, exemplary even, after all, the man was a tremendously charismatic personality.

His views on the other hand were, as we all know, despicable and wholly incorrect to say the least.


I should note by the way, that while Hitler was charismatic, this guy most certainly is not.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

attempting (Clumsily, I might add) to gloss over the one defining fact that means kahlers aren't as popular.

not popular to buy, but every one who i have demonstrated one to is amazed by the bridge's superiority.

saab cars are not too popular either but operation is not comparable with chevrolet or ford.

i feel sorry for the company since they are losing alot of business because of the myths of that video which is getting alot of hits and because stores do not educate properly because the sales staff are usually uneducated about the bridge. and the one thing that ruins it is the fact that saddles are not at the right spot... i know this from observing... people complain they go out of tune and then i just looked at all the 3 guitars with kahlers at a big retailer warehouse of music nearby were all setup wrong with the saddles too high causing the friction... every single one of them... and there is not necessarily the 3 in one oil sitting at every corner to allow playability at that height, and there is also not a tiny hex that size of the saddle hexes resting on every single amp at stores. so yes, this is the main reason. so what?

the wammi usa guy is very mad at the youtube guy doing this... and i understand why... my purpose in threads like these is to at least rectify the situation with these 'guerilla' style posts that i am keeping as civilized as i can... (wammi usa is not kahler usa, it is more the chinese kahler stuff, I think... dont quote me. but they are still top notch bridges).

....There are WAY too many moving parts in them, and the setup is overcomplex to say the least.

I have every reason to suspect you have no set up a Kahler before and that your claims are the opposite of the fact because there are not many moving parts at all.... only the cam and rollers... nothing else moves. You don't know anything about Kahlers with that comment. And compare that to a floyd rose where the hole entire bridge moves.

the setup takes a second... clearly you have not set one up if you are going to say something ridiculous like that. otherwise you would back your claims with an explanation about what exactly in the process is so hard to set up of a K? Care to explain.

How many people do you know avoid floyd roses because of them being a pain to set up?

Actually, tons. most people i know who have them have gotten tired of the operation and setup that they have gotten their technicians to lock them so they don't act as a whammy system anymore but a fixed one.

Now multiply that number by ten for kahler, because they're a PAIN IN THE HOLE.

no comment. since you don't explain what about it is so. These are points without any substance to support them.

A floyd rose string change and FULL SETUP needs a pair of wire cutters and your allen keys. Maybe a bit of chapstick on the first set up ONLY. Thats too much hassle for most people to begin with.

A Kahler string change needs a soldering iron, wire cutters, allen keys, chapstick, oil, and whatever else you care to mention EVERY TIME. I mean seriously, a ****ING SOLDERING IRON?

you forgot to mention by the time you solder all the strings, you are still trying to get the tuning the strings portion of the setup to tune up right by compensating for values all over the place and its often a hit and miss proposition if you get the tuning on.

BTW... the soldering string process is only required for weaker wound strings. with the roller oil process only once in a while. but you are right in one respect... just like a formula one car or a rally car requires a longer time to prepare for its journey than a ford focus or honda civic. but the performance is well worth it...

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

So this isn't the first time you've signed up on forum, and proceeded to arrogantly parade around your opinion as 'irrefutable and objective fact'?

The first time i made some mistakes in some of the reasoning for why i thought Kahlers were better... (even incorrectly setup ones)... but now after actually thoroughly doing everything possible, i thought i would share startling new discoveries. You really don't understand man. And also, i am doing it to even out the unfair myths going around about kahlers that do not exist.

Jesus. I'd have thought you'd have learned after the FIRST time...

the only thing i learned were all the more reasons to go with my original opinion.

. Maybe its time you accepted that you just come off as a jackass with an inflated sense of the worth of your own opinions.

why are you starting the personal attacks and insults? I never did this... is a mod checking this guys first insult? what the hell is your problem? why are you being a total a-hole with such unprovoked behavior? I kept it civilized and now this.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by SilverEra

Saying this guy is a jackass is as much of an under-statement as "Hey. I think Hitler had an attitude problem!"

another one contrary to forum policy right there. can someone take disciplinary action against these culprits?

[Magical Muffin]

Originally Posted by FarBeyond

Actually, tons. most people i know who have them have gotten tired of the operation and setup that they have gotten their technicians to lock them so they don't act as a whammy system anymore but a fixed one.

That was his point.

Seriously man, there's no need to write essays or anything about this subject. People would have taken your posts seriously if you didn't have the need to write 3 massive walls of text, much of it being mainly opinion. You probably should have been able to realize this.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by toshiro

Better question:

If the Kahler tremolo is so much better than a Floyd, why did Kahler make a Floyd copy called a Steeler, right before spending almost a decade making golf-clubs?

faulty reasoning, all having no bearing on the operation of a cam-based tremolo where only the cam moves vs. a fulcrum where the whole bridge moves. it seems that floyd rose is so arrogant about is pathetic and unefficient bridge that he won't admit its time for a big improvement with a new mechanism that does not present all the clear disadvantages i have layed out.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by Magical Muffin

That was his point.

no, the point was in reference to why most people are frustrated with floyds and have them locked. no need on a kahler. nice try to play it unsportsmanlike.

(and btw you CAN lock it to be fixed on a kahler with an instant simple hex adjustment. no need for massive surgery and blocks.

Seriously man, there's no need to write essays or anything about this subject. People would have taken your posts seriously if you didn't have the need to write 3 massive walls of text, much of it being mainly opinion. You probably should have been able to realize this.

it was just a report i wanted to make due to the totally improper assessments so far.

i could not help it... i simply i had to. even if it is not "better", at least admit is much more efficient.... due the entire floyd bridge moves!!! LOL... as opposed to the KAHLER'S CAM MOVES ONLY inside the rest of the solid components that are FIXED!!!! and with stable rollers that do not change the actual position of the saddles but are fixed... if something is that much more efficient that a novel could even be written why it is so... where the reasons never end, this is the least i could have done and someone had to do it.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by Timbaline

Chicken vs. Beef

First of all I would like to say that this comparison is completely unbiased, this is my OFFICIAL opinion for eating Beef. Every argument I present will objective and irrefutable.

..........

....2. Animal where meat comes from

Cows are better than chickens
Beef: 2,000,000,000
Chicken: -10,000

bad logic and analogy. you failed to state why they were better.

3. Texture
I like the texture of beef better, but I'm gonna give chicken some points so people think that this is unbiased
Cow:1
Chicken: 1

totally bankrupt line of argument. you failed to show why the chicken merited any points. other than subjective opinion, you use no rational thought process in this horrid comparision of something irrelevant. whereas i showed why kahlers are more efficient due to more torque in the cam and fine tuners, and due to the fact that the entire bridge of a floyd moves with the arm.. as do their licenced copies... which makes floyd bridge have much less efficiency than the kahler where the arm only moves the cam which the strings are wound around. the arm is moving a much smaller piece and yet gets even more range... i did the same type of reasoned comparision based on the mechanics of both bridges in the other 20 or so categories i shared.

....You know what I change my mind, chicken sucks in my opinion beef is much better.
Cow:1,000,000,000,000,000
Chicken:-1,111,111,111,222,333,444,555

arbitrarily changing one's mind lends no more support for the action unless there is an objective reason why. not a subjective one

Total: Beef wins

All the arguments I have presented are objective (100% test, 0% opinion) and are irrefutable facts!

what test? merely a test of personal preference. mine was based on mechanical workings and analyzing their ranges, noise, stability under certain situations, stability under certain actions and techniques... etc. none of this was debunked. some claimed kahlers are hard to setup without explaining a reason how or citing a process why.

so again, totally bankrupt.

[Mr. Killer]

This thread is getting out of topic. If you don't like FarBeyond's opinions, then don't read his review and ignore this thread. There's no need to be offensive (where are the mods?). And there is no need to answer EVERY SINGLE comment.

[LonePhantom]

So FarBeyond, was this your sole reason for signing up to Jemsite, a site dedicated to guitars that DO NOT use Kahler bridges? To try and convert users over to your way of thinking?

It sounds like to me you are just trying to troll forums with a bunch of thinly veiled babble about the supposed superiority of Kahler trems.

Or are you going to try and provide a positive contribution to the community?

It seems that plenty of people here have had experience with Kahler trems, and are saying the exact opposite of what you are saying. I'm inclined to listen to the majority in this instance.

Reason being is this community is made of many experienced, knowledgeable people with years of playing guitars under their belts.

Your whole rebuttal of "no you are wrong because I said this" (excuse my simplistic way of putting this, I could not be bothered reading through your diatribes again) is not exactly strong. It really shows you to be a troll, trying to just rile people up, EVEN if you are supposedly discussing it in a "civilised" way.

[jemsite]

Originally Posted by Mr. Killer

This thread is getting out of topic. If you don't like FarBeyond's opinions, then don't read his review and ignore this thread. There's no need to be offensive (where are the mods?). And there is no need to answer EVERY SINGLE comment.

bingo. come on guys, calling/needing mods is like asking for help crossing the street.

please post appropriately in this thread, like all others ... glen

[toshiro]

Originally Posted by FarBeyond

faulty reasoning, all having no bearing on the operation of a cam-based tremolo where only the cam moves vs. a fulcrum where the whole bridge moves. it seems that floyd rose is so arrogant about is pathetic and unefficient bridge that he won't admit its time for a big improvement with a new mechanism that does not present all the clear disadvantages i have layed out.

Are your answers cut and paste? Because it sure seems that way.

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by FarBeyond

faulty reasoning, all having no bearing on the operation of a cam-based tremolo where only the cam moves vs. a fulcrum where the whole bridge moves. it seems that floyd rose is so arrogant about is pathetic and unefficient bridge that he won't admit its time for a big improvement with a new mechanism that does not present all the clear disadvantages i have layed out.

On a kahler, the sheer number of moving or adjustable parts is its weakness. As stated earlier in the thread, those parts move over time.

As for the whole bridge moving, in floyds case thats actually better. Why? Because the STRING ITSELF only has, and will only EVER have one point of contact with the bridge, and thats the lock itself. This means that when moving the string, theres no possibility of it fouling up. As long as the bridge saddle itself is locked down, and as long as the fulcrum returns to position, you will have 100% perfect return EVERY time. Only two possible points where it could snag.

On a kahler, you could have the locked saddle, you could have the returning to position, but the roller and the string passing over the cam introduce two more points of contact for the string to snag, get stuck, or just generally be victimised by friction. Then theres the multi way adjustments giving way slightly over time, in practically all directions.

[Timbaline]

Farbeyond, do you know any tools of satire, such as parody and exaggeration? It seems like you surely don't due to the way you commented on my "Chicken vs Beef" post.

[RedTiger]

Originally Posted by SilverEra

Saying this guy is a jackass is as much of an under-statement as "Hey. I think Hitler had an attitude problem!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

/thread



For the record, I prefer chic...no...beef! No! Floyd Rose!