Kahler Tremolos vs. Floyd Rose/Floating Tremolos Part A

[toneboy]

Originally Posted by FarBeyond

For the same reason Lamborghinis are not as popular to buy as chevy cavaliers.

Eh, that doesn't hold water. Kahlers are not that much more expensive than OFRs. You're talking $180 for a black OFR vs. $235 for a Kahler 7300 with a string lock. If the Kahler was that much better, many of us would spend the money.

Like I said, I've had both bridges and the Kahler is not as good. If it were, it would be more popular because price is not an issue. Easy of use and maintenance is a major issue for many people. You don't have to oil an OFR and it has less moving parts therefore it has far less to maintain. Not too mention a locking nut is easier to get working right and keep working right than a string lock. The later again over complicates things more than necessary.

Face it, you're not going to convince anyone here that you are right. You might have changed a few opinions on this matter 25 years ago but Kahler had it's day in the sun and that day has passed.

[SilverEra]

Originally Posted by RedTiger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Sad but true!

[stodge]

"saab cars are not too popular either but operation is not comparable with chevrolet or ford."

A SAAB is just a Chevrolet with a different skin. How does that help your argument? *shrug*

[jemaholic]

FarBeyond-
There will always be opposing views on this topic.
Bravo for posting your thoughts - but respect differing views and accept that others will disagree with you. You seem to have difficulty accepting any position other than yours.

[Shredder87]

Reading this thread, I can't help but think this is much ado over nothing.

I personally have never tried a Kahler, so I cannot possibly comment on the matter. What I will say is that it all seems a bit silly and immature on this thread. C'mon folks, this ain't the Jemsite way!

Chill out lads

'87

[stodge]

I used to have a Kahler many years back (20?), but it was the cheapest one possible and I remember hating it.

[Paw]

This thread is just plain ridiculous (/funny) and has sure made my life longer..although I probably end up on the losing side after spending half an hour reading through the whole thing

chicken of beef? guinea pig plz

[stodge]

Suzuki or Lexus?

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by LonePhantom

It sounds like to me you are just trying to troll forums with a bunch of thinly veiled babble about the supposed superiority of Kahler trems.

Or are you going to try and provide a positive contribution to the community?

this WAS my contribution. i did it to offer aid to anyone who chooses to recieve it. but i do not care if the help is not accepted. i just like doing charity work. I get personal satisfaction out of the practice of philanthropy.

It seems that plenty of people here have had experience with Kahler trems, and are saying the exact opposite of what you are saying. I'm inclined to listen to the majority in this instance.

Reason being is this community is made of many experienced, knowledgeable people with years of playing guitars under their belts.

you are just using the fallacy of an appeal to the majority opinion rather than responding to the actual points. with that being said, its still your free choice to choose an inferior floating bridge rather than a fixed one which still offers the whammy or fixed system. so respond to the actual points.

Your whole rebuttal of "no you are wrong because I said this" (excuse my simplistic way of putting this, I could not be bothered reading through your diatribes again) is not exactly strong. It really shows you to be a troll, trying to just rile people up, EVEN if you are supposedly discussing it in a "civilised" way.

again, you omit any reference to the mechanical advantage i have displayed. in other words, you are not even responding to any of my arguments.

[SilverEra]

With this sort of thing, opinion is everything and "unbiased tests"(*cough*) to see which one is "superior" is NOTHING

As I've said before, many people prefer the Edge to the OFR, and claim that it's a "superior" design. I, though, prefer the OFR, and see that as a superior design. Why? Because I prefer it, for reasons unknown to even Apollo, Zeus, Yahweh... every deity in the history of mankind. Is an apple superior to a bananna? I'm sure there's some tests you could do to find which is scientifically superior in terms of how your body will react to it, but, guess what, if bananna wins, and I don't like bananna's, I still ain't gonna eat banannas!

Sorry, but your attitude falls FAR below what I would even remotely call "not a douchebag", or "definately not a troll, which doesn't help a test already reaking of biased information etc. Why no non recessed floyds in your test? Why no floyds with a brass sustain block in your tests? Half your complaints with the floyd could probably be erradicatied with a tremolo stop etc...

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

On a kahler, the sheer number of moving or adjustable parts is its weakness. As stated earlier in the thread, those parts move over time.

put it this way - a WRX sti world rally championship car, also has alot more adjustable parts than a honda civic (the fron concole has about 4x the buttons)... true, it requires more maintenance - because at that significantly higher performance it is for a valid reason.

As for the whole bridge moving, in floyds case thats actually better. Why? Because the STRING ITSELF only has, and will only EVER have one point of contact with the bridge, and thats the lock itself. This means that when moving the string, theres no possibility of it fouling up. As long as the bridge saddle itself is locked down, and as long as the fulcrum returns to position, you will have 100% perfect return EVERY time. Only two possible points where it could snag.

you forgot to list the 20 other reasons why the floating whole bridge is a massive disadvantage:

-much harder to setup, especially on a 7 string... which causes an increase in problems trying to compensate each string until the bridge in tune tenfold - experience guitar instructor tells all his kids to stay away from floyds... and once i showed him the kahler, he was amazed at the things he only heard about and never had first hand experience with before - people act like they have found the holy grail
-the string is lifted further away from the pickup during dives
-string breakage is catastrophic
-cannot adjust global tuning for jamming with different auditions, and therefore must compensate by playing in a different key and then transposing amongst each other - thats torturous
-sharp problem relevant to palm mute pressure hence limited stage theatrics/movement
-the return is not 100% stable on most floyds, (Dimebag's tech always complained about this). because whammy action causes strings to go out of tune alot on most floyds... you can whale away a hell of alot more liberally on a kahler and not have to worry about that.
-harder to intonate
-and the other points you fail to respond to

On a kahler, you could have the locked saddle, you could have the returning to position, but the roller and the string passing over the cam introduce two more points of contact for the string to snag, get stuck, or just generally be victimised by friction. Then theres the multi way adjustments giving way slightly over time, in practically all directions.

just like the many long hours of maintenance going into the space shuttle as opposed to a hand glider

if you want to look at that as a disadvantage. i really dont care. but i believe the effort is worth it. as far as performance when both are at maximum optimal operational performance capability, there is no comparision.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by Timbaline

Farbeyond, do you know any tools of satire, such as parody and exaggeration? It seems like you surely don't due to the way you commented on my "Chicken vs Beef" post.

i sure got alot of satire from it, but it was irrelevant satire. which is why is just responded for jokes, multiplying the responding satiric defense by alot to show how poor and in the wrong context that satirical attempt of yours actually was.

[SilverEra]

Originally Posted by FarBeyond

experience guitar instructor tells all his kids to stay away from floyds... and once i showed him the kahler, he was amazed at the things he only heard about and never had first hand experience with before - people act like they have found the holy grail

An experienced guitar instructor telling kids to use a tremolo that requires a soldering iron??!?!

And by the way, you still haven't replied to why you neglected to mention non-recessed floyds, floyds with a brass sustain block etc.

which is why is just responded for jokes, multiplying the responding satiric defense by alot to show how poor and in the wrong context that satirical attempt of yours actually was.
Reply With Quote

Dude, get an attitude upgrade!

[FarBeyond]

(error message. see next)

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by RedTiger

<<Sub-quoting SilverEra
Saying this guy is a jackass is as much of an under-statement as "Hey. I think Hitler had an attitude problem!" >>



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

another attempt at a failed comparision to Hitler, who used coercive force and oppression against those who disagreed. Whereas I do not mind if people choose to refuse my charity aid. Nice try.