Kahler Tremolos vs. Floyd Rose/Floating Tremolos Part A

[SilverEra]

Originally Posted by FarBeyond

another attempt at a failed comparision to Hitler, who used coercive force and oppression against those who disagreed. Whereas I do not mind if people choose to refuse my charity aid. Nice try.

So is this out of context too? If you're going to reply to me, reply to my gripes with your testing. "Whereas I do not mind if people choose to refuse my charity aid." -- The very calling of what you're doing as "charity" is showing yourself to be someone with one HUGE superiority complex.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by SilverEra

An experienced guitar instructor telling kids to use a tremolo that requires a soldering iron??!?!

not necessarily, you just buy better strings that are wound better.

And by the way, you still haven't replied to why you neglected to mention non-recessed floyds, floyds with a brass sustain block etc.

yes i did. again for the record: buddy, non recessed floyds are still FLOATING, and have the same operation just without the same frontal recessed cavity, but still with a hole right through the body and massive routing in the back taking out tons of the wood and hence the much needed tone of the guitar.

i owned a guitar with a non-recessed floyd as opposed to the recessed one and the recessed one felt much slicker. the non-recessed one was pretty bare, lacked any elegance, and felt too chuky and bland overall. but the essential operation was the same floating concept. so to bring up a non-recessed version of the same thing proves NOTHING.

I own 2 guitars with non-recessed kahlers and one with a custom routing (only a quarted of an inch deep) for a recessed kahler. there is no difference in the operation other than action difference.

Dude, get an attitude upgrade!

if you look carefully, never presented any of this with attitude. only detached emotions. Whereas we see all these emotional-based responses this has caused rather than factual based ones. the only emotion i feel is being very sorry for some people in here who are so blind to all the huge differences in the pros and cons, and the main central differences.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by SilverEra

So is this out of context too? If you're going to reply to me, reply to my gripes with your testing.

i have tested the same performance features on both bridges. those are the results i got, i clarified exact features of both bridges systems in reference to those areas. Feel free to run the same tests and share your results for peer review. I would be happy to review them and be open to finding any holes in my tests, if you find any. If you have more informed data i have missed, I would then re-run the tests and modify my conclusions accordingly. But at the moment I have no reason to.

The very calling of what you're doing as "charity" is showing yourself to be someone with one HUGE superiority complex.

I would never consider myself superior to anyone else ever. maybe i would consider myself to have more informed data in one area, whereas there are experts in other areas that perhaps have more knowledge in maybe the finishing of the guitar, or the neck, playing technique, etc. I have strictly layed out the mechanical operation with advantages and disadvantages. many of which were not responded to for example: the setup problems, sharp problem relevant to palm mute pressure, torque, body tone with the significant hole thrrough the body and big rear routing, regardless of recessed or non-r, effort requried to use arm, fine tuner torque... etc, etc, etc. there are at least 12 other reasons... go find them in the original 3 posts.

[SilverEra]

Originally Posted by FarBeyond

not necessarily, you just buy better strings that are wound better.

Isn't that a mark against the kahler then? Potentially having to change your favorite strings for something else you might not be so keen on?

yes i did. again for the record: buddy, non recessed floyds are still FLOATING, and have the same operation just without the same frontal recessed cavity, but still with a hole right through the body and massive routing in the back taking out tons of the wood and hence the much needed tone of the guitar.

They are still floating? Ever heared of a Mr. Edward Van Halen? Maybe you should look him up some time, and how he lowered the Non Recessed Floyd onto the body, rendering it NON FLOATING, which also makes for good use in combination with a D-Tuna. Ever heared of that nifty little gadget?

TONS OF WOOD? Please. The control cavity according to your logic must suck MUCH more tone out of the guitar that the spring cavity wouldn't make much difference in anycase.

i owned a guitar with a non-recessed floyd as opposed to the recessed one and the recessed one felt much slicker. the non-recessed one was pretty bare, lacked any elegance, and felt too chuky and bland overall. but the essential operation was the same floating concept. so to bring up a non-recessed version of the same thing proves NOTHING.

Again. Subjective. I prefer the non recessed OFR to ANY receseed tremolo/kahler. What does that prove? Nothing.

if you look carefully, never presented any of this with attitude. only detached emotions.

...
.....
......

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by toneboy

. Easy of use and maintenance is a major issue for many people. You don't have to oil an OFR and it has less moving parts therefore it has far less to maintain.

ease of use? have you tried setting up a floyd on a 7 string and then deciding to change global tuning by 1 and 1/2 steps? LOL.

and like i said, a space shuttle also has alot of moving parts, and require them because you can't go to space with a commercial airliner.

Not too mention a locking nut is easier to get working right and keep working right than a string lock. The later again over complicates things more than necessary.

locking nut? where in the world have i mentioned a locking nut in this? lol. i only use the floyd locking nut. but you are talking about a different element about the guitar. please keep your responses relevant to within the confines of this thread.

Face it, you're not going to convince anyone here that you are right. You might have changed a few opinions on this matter 25 years ago but Kahler had it's day in the sun and that day has passed.

I could care less if i dont convince anyone... people elsewhere are very grateful for informing them and they will be switching too.

popularity in a different era is irrelevant to the facts and another logical fallacy. you make references that have no weight on bridge mechanics.

as for kahler marketing, i suggest they give more warnings on their products... just like how a person not used to an exotic car should be made aware by the sales man of the much heavier maintenance and warned that they are hard to get used to at first. i consider the kahler to be the exotic.

although I still plan on having a floyd-equipped guitar around (only one that has good flutter - which is rare)... but with all the mods people mention to improve them such as the trem stop or whatever its called - that decreases flutter.

[SilverEra]

Originally Posted by FarBeyond

I could care less if i dont convince anyone...

Yeah right. Someone who obviously has done this on multiple forums and has some kind of ego problem, obviously likes to covince people that they're right and the whole world is wrong for having a difference in opinion and taste.

To be honest, nothing good is going to come out of this thread. I think it would be better with it being locked before someone gets themselves banned.


/OUT.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by SilverEra

Isn't that a mark against the kahler then? Potentially having to change your favorite strings for something else you might not be so keen on?

A kia can run on 87 octane fuel... a lamborghini only takes fuel with higher octane ratings. a formula one car only runs on aircraft grade fuel.

They are still floating? Ever heared of a Mr. Edward Van Halen? Maybe you should look him up some time, and how he lowered the Non Recessed Floyd onto the body, rendering it NON FLOATING, which also makes for good use in combination with a D-Tuna. Ever heared of that nifty little gadget?

yes, the unwanted thing that sticks out and you can't really do pull ups. yes i am familiar with it. on a kahler you can drop tune the high torque fine tuner to do that. kahler still wins though because pull back is not affected.

TONS OF WOOD? Please. The control cavity according to your logic must suck MUCH more tone out of the guitar that the spring cavity wouldn't make much difference in anycase.

many people play fixed bridges for the exact reason of the lost natural tone inherent in all floyds, recessed, or non-recessed. ask them. this will be a consistent answer among most fixed bridge players, in addition to complaining about the setup issues i already explained. as a person who knows how to setup floyds, i whine even more than they and feel their pain.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by stodge

A SAAB is just a Chevrolet with a different skin. How does that help your argument? *shrug*

oh really? ok then i meant Subaru WRX Sti world championship rally rar , compared to a chevy tracker. obviously it takes more and better parts and the maintenance accompanying it.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by jemaholic

FarBeyond-
There will always be opposing views on this topic.
Bravo for posting your thoughts - but respect differing views and accept that others will disagree with you. You seem to have difficulty accepting any position other than yours.

I respect a person's decision to use floyds. James Murphy uses them, he is my favorite guitar player. So does Dimebag. I would ask their opinions on the matter and they could possibly prove me wrong with information I might be aware of. But many other people without 3the luxury of guitars lying around do not deserve to go through the big problems i have layed out. thats the only reason i offer an alternative. Please explain where I have not respected a different view? I respect a person's decision to still use a floyd, but it doesn't really change the facts about both bridges' operational differences and performance results.

[stodge]

Wow this must be an obsession for you - I can't believe how many replies you've made. Why don't you just drop it? You're preaching Britney Spears to a room full of rockers. Don't you have anything better to do? Now it's just embarassing.

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by SilverEra

As I've said before, many people prefer the Edge to the OFR, and claim that it's a "superior" design. I, though, prefer the OFR, and see that as a .....

those are both floating teeter-totter type bridges. fundamentally different in concept than the cam system. thats an ineffective comparision. and kahler cam efficiency, rollers low, and oiled are a god send. with better wound strings and no soldering.

[quote]
Is an apple superior to a bananna? I'm sure there's some tests you could do to find which is scientifically superior in terms of how your body will react to it, but, guess what, if bananna wins, and I don't like bananna's, I still ain't gonna eat banannas! [quote]

I respected that. As I respected Dime's choice. But I did not react with personal insults like you have. (And people are comparing poor old me to Hitler!)... observe your following insults and personal attacks:

Sorry, but your attitude falls FAR below what I would even remotely call "not a douchebag", or "definately not a troll,

which doesn't help a test already reaking of biased information etc.

How is it biased? I don't understand your rationale for that assessment. The results are the results. The score is based on te results of extensive testing in many category of criteria that were visited. Where as all you are doing is making claims that I was biased without even hinting at any support for them.

Why no non recessed floyds in your test? Why no floyds with a brass sustain block in your tests? Half your complaints with the floyd could probably be erradicatied with a tremolo stop etc...

please see my response to the brass sustain block. and btw, kahlers's upgrade to stainless steel rollers also increase sustain. and did you know i granted the sustain category to the floyd overall? Becaise I admitted they sustain a bit longer. Just measure the time in tests for yourself and comare results and score accordingly. But the other areas were a landslide difference because of fundamental differences.

as for the trem stop - flutter is greatly diminished with mods like that... in addition to the unwanted noise dampening upgrades which affect the cool sound of their flutter even more... hence defeating the greatest advantage of a floyd which is flutter. Noise dampening upgrades also affect floating bridge sustain.

Kahler stainless steel rollers also have notable harmonics and punch.

Can a moderator please review the personal insults up until now and this one below and assess forum membership accordingly? Thank you. Observe silver era's personal attack:

[FarBeyond]

Originally Posted by stodge

Wow this must be an obsession for you - I can't believe how many replies you've made. Why don't you just drop it? You're preaching Britney Spears to a room full of rockers. Don't you have anything better to do? Now it's just embarassing.

please make relevant responses to the points. .

[jono]

Originally Posted by FarBeyond

please make relevant responses to the points. .

Actually - don't.

It's beyond a joke. I've reviewed the thread, there's been some juvenile behaviour on many sides. So I'm closing the thread and leaving it at that.