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10K views 84 replies 14 participants last post by  tobe 
#1 ·
s it possible to get a Laptop that is aimed at musicians???

It would be really handy if my next Laptop had all the connections i need to go into a Mixer. Most Laptops only seem to have a small headphones output now which is not very handy for musicians.

Just a set of din plug stereo outs would be nice
 
#5 ·
Why? Let me say again, WHY? A High Class PC will cost you a LOT more, and even still, the Apple will be better. Just take an example here, how many recording studios do you see with Windows computers on them? Hell, even Mr. Vai has Macs in his studio, check out the Freak Show Excess tutorial from Guitar World. If you're doing more serious work, get Pro Tools, other than that all macs have audio Line-In ports (and you can buy a monster iStudioLink for $12 to plug in a guitar cable), except for the MacPro which has the optical audio-in. BUT, the only major difference between Garageband and other professional apps (Pro Tools, Logic Pro, etc.) is the number of tracks you can have, and in Garageband I think you can have up to 64 user-built tracks and 192 loops/software tracks, so that (I find at least) MORE than enough.

Did I mention a custom built PC will cost LOADS more than a standard Mac that will be more efficient and better at recording?

/rant

*DISCLAIMER: This is NOT me being a fanboy, it's more of me stating the facts for the benefit of you. I don't care if you choose Mac or PC, Mac is just my preference and I am just stating that IMO you'd be better off with a Mac.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the advice guys.

I have to agree with recording on PC. I got so fed up Latency that i went a bought a Tascam. I only really need a computer to play the pre recorded backing tracks through a PA but the PC cant even manage that in stereo.

I think the Powerbook is a must. I might even run the Tascam into protools if it performs that much better than a PC
 
#23 ·
Thanks for the advice guys.

I have to agree with recording on PC. I got so fed up Latency that i went a bought a Tascam. I only really need a computer to play the pre recorded backing tracks through a PA but the PC cant even manage that in stereo.
Ehm - I don't see why you seem to be associating high latency with a PC. For any serious audio application you will need a good soundcard with good drivers, the Mac vs. PC distinction is not that relevant here. Processor power/RAM is important and you might be getting more performance out of a Mac, but then you will probably pay more for it.

What PC are you using? What soundcard? I do some rather demanding live audio on a year-old PC Laptop with a Behringer firewire interface and I don't have any issues.

One very good reason for me to use a Mac in an audio setting is the 6-pin firewire jack which can power an external audio interface, eliminating the need for a power supply. Not quite enough of a reason for me to buy one at this point though.
 
#8 ·
Laptops are by their nature a compromise. You can't get true desktop performance out of them and they cost much more than a similarly configured desktop, but you can take them with you everywhere. That being said, it's tough to find a really well built laptop these days. My wife bought herself a Dell business class machine for work and while it's not a bad computer, it's not great either. The Toshiba's used to be solid but they pretty much blow these days. HP/Compaq suck ass. Sony's are spotty and have some of the highest DOA percentages in the industry.

Mac's are awesome if you want a laptop. They're well built and easy to use but they don't always interface with PC based systems as well. That being said, they are lightyears better than they used to be.

True story: Whilst in college learning to program I had this prof who absolutely hated Microsoft. Hated PC's etc. So the college had a bunch of Macs for demonstration in classrooms and the one we had in our class was always crashing. I'm talking total lockdown and a hard reboot needed. So one day while she's fiddling with the Mac I look over at this chick whom I often partnered up with on stuff and said loud enough for everyone in the class to hear "This must be an example of that vaunted Mac reliability" The prof nearly threw me out of class for that... She was pissed!

I get sick of people who have no clue how computers really work bagging on MS products and Windows and PC's and all that. The problem with PC's is that for the most part people don't know how to maintain them. They think they can load a bunch of **** on there so they have 56 processes running all the time and the thing will still be fast. They act like they don't ever have to do any maintenance on the thing and it will still run like new forever.

I still use my gaming system I built 5 years ago for general stuff. It's never crashed, it's never blown up, I've had a few hard drives go south but that's no biggie because I run two or three and can boot of any of them. I back everything up and do a full wipe and reinstall of the OS about every 6 months on each of them. The computer runs great. Another trick that works well is to have a dedicated HD for your OS and use another HD for all your gaming/internet/whatever.

For music I'd get a Mac, for most everything else I do a PC is the ticket.
 
#11 ·
For music I'd get a Mac, for most everything else I do a PC is the ticket.
not anymore. You want to run Windows? Fine. Parallels...Pros runs both OSs at the same time, even split them between monitors. Cons...needs alot of RAM, 2 Gigs to run smoothly. Boot Camp....Pros: less Ram, less problems with peripherals, although they claim the new vesion of Parallels has fixed this problem. Cons: Have to partition the HD, and have to re-boot to switch between OS, and of course you have windows on a mac! j/k :wink:. The bottom line is that you can run both OSs on one machine. The downside is that when you have Windows on the MAC you can catch windows viruses.

Latency is not an issue when you have outboard interfaces. MOTU and Protools are among the best, but there are many other fine brands. Garageband is a fine entry level program great for working on songs, etc, but if you want a serious program look at DP or Pro tools. Both industry standards. Of course, everyone has their own favs, so its good to go out and try as many as you can. Good luck!
 
#9 ·
Thanks. Cool post.

I dont play games at all so i think the Mac is a must. The only thing my computer gets used for other than music is browse the internet but thats no big deal.

If i want to play games which is very unlikely, i prefer the Xbox's anyway
 
#12 ·
you can't customize mac hardware, pc's u can
sorry thats incorrect. Its not as easy to do, but as with most high end equipment, you need to know what it is you are doing. In my work I have to use both camps extensively, and I know the pros and cons of each well. For my own use the only PC I own is to run a thermal printer. Every other computer is a MAC. I have found over the years that MACs are more user friendly, more reliable, easier to rebuild, etc. However, the two biggest things that PCs have over MACs are price, but you get what you pay for, and availabilty of aftermarket parts, you can't go to FRY's and get parts, but why would you want to go to FRYs? :wink: , of course the third thing for hardcore gamers is games...

One thing to consider, is that one of the PCs world's biggest strenghts, is also one of its weaknesses...Having the ability of have a ton of differnet aftermarket parts that have to be able to work together in a machine, can cause speed issues. Macs are designed with specific parts processor, MB, etc to work together....bus speeds to work with the processor, etc...resulting in a more effecient machine off the shelf. Sure you could do the same with a PC to certain extent, but you would need to be a well informed buyer when getting your parts. Again, good luck, and I am not trying to make this into a coke vs pepsi thing...Go with what you like, but bashing out of ignorance is kinda silly (on either side)
 
#13 ·
the mac vs windows stuff here is lame but then again so is things like post #3 wrecking the potential for a useful thread...

some of you need to learn more about marketing too.

when you buy a Mac you're paying a premium to cover their advertising (and unprofitable apple stores) and fact they price Apple PCs high purposefully to create an artificial facade of superiority... i mean only average people buy a $699 dell when the elite buy the superior $1699 mac. Their infiltration into college campuses and upscale malls is methodical, as that age bracket is especially susceptible to advertising and being talked into things that make little to no sense to people with real jobs and lives ;)

now, that said determine what SOFTWARE you want to run and buy the appropriate platform where you think it will run best and have the most support... glen
 
#14 ·
some of you need to learn more about marketing too.
Glenn, come on...remember Dude did you get a Dell? :wink:

when you buy a Mac you're paying a premium to cover their advertising (and unprofitable apple stores) and fact they price Apple PCs high purposefully to create an artificial facade of superiority... i mean only average people buy a $699 dell when the elite buy the superior $1699 mac. Their infiltration into college campuses and upscale malls is methodical, as that age bracket is especially susceptible to advertising and being talked into things that make little to no sense to people with real jobs and lives ;)
To believe the only differences between the two platforms is price and marketing is plain silly, and shows a bit of your own bias :wink:

now, that said determine what SOFTWARE you want to run and buy the appropriate platform where you think it will run best and have the most support... glen
Now there is a good statement! Glenn is right with that, lets get this thread back on track. Oh, FYI Apple support is horrible, I would be the first to say that. Have a good day
 
#15 ·
don't confuse bias with being informed.

To believe the only differences between the two platforms is price and marketing is plain silly, and shows a bit of your own bias :wink:
where did i say "only" difference. it's the main reason for price difference. all the parts are interchangable between the two for the most part.

i also know dells warranty is cheaper and longer though and you already said apple support "horrible" ;) ...glen
 
#16 ·
Just to fuel the fire

http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3667201

Microsoft is frequently dinged for having insecure products, with security holes and vulnerabilities. But Symantec (Quote), no friend of Microsoft, said in its latest research report that when it comes to widely-used operating systems, Microsoft is doing better overall than its leading commercial competitors.

The information was a part of Symantec's 11th Internet Security Threat Report. The report, released this week, covered a huge range of security and vulnerability issues over the last six months of 2006, including operating systems.

The report found that Microsoft (Quote) Windows had the fewest number of patches and the shortest average patch development time of the five operating systems it monitored in the last six months of 2006

Then there's Mac OS X. Despite the latest TV ads ridiculing the security in Vista with a Matrix-like Agent playing the UAC in Vista, Apple (Quote) has nothing to brag about. Symantec found 43 vulnerabilities in Mac OS X and a 66 day turnaround on fixes.
 
#22 ·
I never said you did not know technology because of your age. I said that statement was something a younger person would make. Glad it works for you, but I have news for you, many people have been working in the recording field for longer than you have been around and have a great deal of experience in the field. I know its hard to believe, but they might know more than you. :wink: Enjoy your software, works great for you, thats, well, great! To each their own, but your all in compassing statements about MACs, Pro tools, etc is a bit naive.
 
#27 ·
Okay Yoyo - you're forgiven ;-)

Seriously though, I have used ProTools LE for about eight years now, and it is great software - it is dense, and it demands a fair learning curve from the user - but that compatibility issue with studios is one of the reasons we chose, and stuck with ProTools - recording guitars, and bass and keyboards (and to a degree vocals) is really not that difficult to pull off at home - either DI'ing everything, or running them through my TriAxis gives a really excellent direct sound.... but DRUMS!!!

Nah, drums you need excellent mics, great acoustics, and someone who actually knows how to capture drums in a recording - so, off we trot to a decent studio, do all the drum tracks in a day, burn them onto a DVD, go home, load them into ProTools LE and start multi tracking over the top.

When it's all done, we drag the MAc into a mastering studio, download all the tracks and do the final mixing and mastering in a decent room with decent acoustics and reference speakers.

Happy so far!

Cheers

David
 
#28 ·
The dumb thing here is the attack on people for choosing the hardware that works for them. It's like saying Joe Perry, Gilly Gibbons, or Jimmy Page suck because they don't play Jems, or that if they knew what a floyd would do for them they'd switch. Or that Dimebag just had no idea what he was missing by choosing to use the solid state Randalls when they were his thing. Most people would have bagged on choosing a Dean back then. Anyone else remember when you weren't a man unless you had a 900 space rack setup by Bradshaw and stomp boxes were for old guys?

I know what it takes to keep a PC up and maintained. Its a huge part of why my job sucks sometimes. At home, I'm sick of having to worry about it, and use it my laptop 90% of the time anyways. So I got my macbook. No driver conflicts when switching interfaces. I've yet to crash it. Garageband has a $99 controller so I can plug and and go. Sure not the best program in the world but it is a great scratch pad.

Honestly, my mac has things I'd change too. I really wish I didn't windows to play the games I want. I hate Itunes as a program, I think it does rude things to farm animals. I think its a clumsy interface and I really don't want the ads thrown at me when trying to use my music collection. Most pc users I know love it but they don't think that Ipods are mentally challenged either, I hate that stupid wheel. I'll keep my Neuros thank you.

I agree with most of what Glen has to say. People attack people and not actually approach the subject with anything above 4th grade logic.

Just because you choose a Mac doesn't mean you cant maintain a PC. Just because you choose Windows doesn't mean your not enlightened.

What really bugs me is the arguments about which company is better, or more altrustic. Microsoft and Apple are both gigantic machines that want nothing more than to get as much money as possible, from you. Thats why the exist. These 2 do it with computer products. Other companies would like to cure cancer for cash. Norton and McAffee do it with insecurity and paranoia. They make decisions on rasing stock value, period. Go inside any large corporation and you'll find the same thing. Does anyone really want to defend large corporations and their great intentions? How about the kindness of the music industry and the great minds there.

The point that should be made here is these things are tools. Choose the tool and application that suits you and the task best. If your looking for a tool for audio production, consider a Mac. They have some serious strengths. If you don't want too, don't, but don't expect Mac users to keep quiet when people solicit advice. We are enlightened after all. :p
 
#32 ·
Apple laptops have HD audio. MacBook Pro has digital out as well (SPDIF). All Apple laptops have full blown Firewire (a standard that's used by pro A/D D/A converters).

In my only encounter with Apple support I didn't have any issues. Called them, there was an American dude on the phone (imagine that!). He had me download a tool, we've run some tests, I've emailed him results - he told me to take the machine to the store (this was a mini). I did. Four days later I've picked it up. It can't be more painless than this.
 
#33 ·
i have access to heavily discounted new 13.3" macbooks (i'm looking at a 12.1 or 14.1 laptop later this summer this is in the middle price wise)....

how difficult is it to wipe everything Apple and do a clean Windows XP install on it (not even using bootloader or whatever apple promotes to run windows)... is that possible and plug/play? do those have 2 button touch pads built in yet? ...glen
 
#38 ·
No, it isn't possible, mainly because Apple uses EFI (extensive firmware interface) over BIOS as a bootloader (long story short, it's confusing, even I don't get it).

If you SOLELY want to run Windows on your computer, get a Windows machine, there's no point in buying a Mac. There's no problem with that, and it's a heck of a lot more convenient for you. The major problem is that Apples were meant to run OS X, and running Windows is more of a side project. This means that half of not having stability issues is running OS X on a Mac.

But to shortly answer your question, no.

Oh and btw the keyboard wouldn't be a problem, it's actually quite easy, I use bootcamp AND other Windows machines at home, you can download the drivers and burn them onto a CD through bootcamp.

Powerbooks aren't offered anymore, they stopped selling them in August 2006.

Oh, and you can get a virus on a Mac by running Windows via Boot Camp, BUT it will only affect the Windows partition, as the most it can do on the Mac partition is take up a few megabytes.

Yes, I am an incredibly knowledgeable Machead. Sorry, some of these things said earlier were really annoying me, so I had to clear it up.
 
#34 ·
You won't be satisfied with it if you're only going to run Windows on it. Just because it can run it doesn't mean it was designed to do so. I know, I run Windows in a virtual machine on my MBP every day. Your main problem will not even be the right mouse key (you get used to two finger click within a week because that's also how you scroll) - it'll be the keyboard. If you look at it closely, you'll see that it's missing some buttons (ins, del, dedicated pg up/down, home, end). This isn't a problem in Mac OS, this is a bit of an annoyance in Windows.

I'm also not a big fan of the glossy display (it's my wife's laptop and she hates the display). Once they release a variant with matte display, the glossy one will hit evilbay.

MBP display, OTOH, is a pleasure to look at.

Sorry I didn't answer your question, though. I've never tried blowing everything off. I'm not even sure it's possible since XP probably will keel over and die without a boot loader because there's no BIOS. I did try installing Vista in bootcamp. It worked OK, but I blew it off anyway 'cause I like XP better.
 
#35 ·
OH, and btw, I've dusted off my old Dell the other day and after two months of using only MBP (before that it was 30/70, with MBP being in the majority) I now realize how big a bag of poo that computer was, even in spite of MBP keyboard layout inconveniences. It'll be hitting evilbay soon, too.
 
#36 ·
thanks.... you're right the dedicated laptop keyboard will be a problem (and keyboards are often the bane of many laptops anyways with those important keys in bad spots).

i can live with the glossy displays on a laptop (all of them seem to have them now) and even bootloader wasting 10GB? for macos not an issue but the buttons are a killer. oh well, that raises the price a few hundred to shrink the laptop down a little if i don't want a 14.1"... glen
 
#48 ·
thanks.... you're right the dedicated laptop keyboard will be a problem (and keyboards are often the bane of many laptops anyways with those important keys in bad spots).

i can live with the glossy displays on a laptop (all of them seem to have them now) and even bootloader wasting 10GB? for macos not an issue but the buttons are a killer. oh well, that raises the price a few hundred to shrink the laptop down a little if i don't want a 14.1"... glen
Well, I know the MacBookPro costs the same with both a matte and a glossy display - dunno about the MAcBook though......?
 
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