Legacy and Boss DS-1... - why Vai uses both???

[armdias]

I was thinking about this and some of you could give me any ideas...

Legacy is the amp built according to Vai specs. I'm shure Vai did extensive test with it to get the sound he wanted. Now, this confuses me. Why the hell does he uses the DS-1 in front of it? Being the Legacy the amp Vai wanted, why not put some extra gain in the amp to mimic the sound of the DS-1 pushing the amp? Why Vai has an amp built to his specs and it still uses a stomp box to get his sound? Why didn't he choosed to put more gain in the amp and drop the DS-1?

I know nothing about the art of building amps, but it shouldn't be that difficult to put a little more gain in the amp to avoid the need to use a stomp box to push it a little more... it confuses me.

Yes, i think i should ask all this to Vai or Carvin... but do you have any thoughts about this?


(Edited by armdias at 8:44 am on Nov. 9, 2001)

[Anil Sahal]

I've always wondered the same thing. *All the big players seem to do this, Satch with his tube Screamer, Vai with his DS-1. *

What also surprises me is that many players get all ****
about using tube amps with hundreds of tubes glowing all over the place and then they stick a solid state stomp box in front of it all! *Surely this defeats the point?

Anil

[armdias]

Yes, it's strange. In the case of other players that use stock amps i can understand the need of a boost pedal: the amp wasn't built to their specs and they may need a little more gain, so they stick a boost pedal in front of it.

But in the Vai case, being the amp built to his specs, having the amp the sound that Vai "wanted", why not put the extra gain right in the amp insted of using a solid state pedal in front?

[goldboy]

Ahem...

The answer is a little simpler than you might think. *I am speculating on Vai's and Satch's use of it, but am doing so just under experience using pedals and tube amps, some old fashion schooling, and of course musician circles.

Tone is in the air (before you start veering this thread elsewhere hold on!).

Soundwaves blaring out of the speaker cabs and into the P.A. systems have to push a lot OR a little air. *The venue will dictate that. *The amps should be considered the 'basis' of your tone and theirs. *Sometimes, nuances need to be adjusted to their liking. * That's where the little DS-1 comes in. *It's small, in front of them, and fully tonally adjustable. *It's a suit to taste type effect. *That's what the soundcheck is for, dialing in the right tone and sound for the venue for which you are playing. *The DS-1 is used by Vai and Satch to do just that. *Satch doesn't have a signature amp (though he is usually seen with Marshall 30th An. amps) but seems to dial in his sound at every venue he hits and he is usually seen with a DS-1 somewhere on the floor in front of him. *Vai, despite, his Carvin legacy amping, still has a monstrous rack of EQ, Reverbs, Eventide, bradshaw switching unit, Boss DS-1 et al. *The amps are still the driving force of his tone...the rest tweak the nuances of that tone...hence making it unique.

I hope I've clarified a little as to why they would use a solid state pedal. *it's for the nuances of their tone that they'd like to dial in at different venues or when recording, or whenever...making those small changes in the amp is possible but painstaking (especially when changing gain affects treble, and changing treble affects mids, yaddy yaddy ya..) so they set the amp to what is appropriate..then color it a bit with a DS-1.

Think of effects pedals as a box of crayons. *They're used to color your tone to what you want to hear.

My 2 Cents.

[jeff l]

I like the sound of an amp set for a bit less gain and a clean pedal boost better than the sound of trying to get it all just using the amp. Maybe it's all psychological.....I dunno.

[dwswift]

Goldboy, I totally disagree...

Vai's rack is far from massive. During the UZ tour he had 3 Legacy heads, a Switcher system, a delay, a rackmount whammy, and a G-Force in his rack. That's 4 spaces of rackmount gear... not big. *True, there was an eventide in the case for someshows, but it was more of a backup for the G-force. *It wasn't even turned on. The only Filtering, EQs, or Reverbs in his signal path was in one little G-Force, a one space rack unit.

The DS-1 as a means of a sound checking device sounds like an extremely crude way to perfect your sound. *There are sound guys to tweak eqs. *There are guitar tech's to tweak amp settings. *

The simple matter of it is, The DS-1 just sounds good driving a large tube power sectoin. *It doesn't matter that it's a cheap solid state pedal, it sounds good and it's a conventient way to boost the signal without having to have a complex amp switching system or a 3 channel amp that would raise prices from Carvin and thus less consumers would be able to affoard it.

Just my opinion though

[gkelm]

Don't these guys use the DS-1 like SRV used to use the TS9/808...basically for a cleanish boost (level up & gain down)? *dwswift, maybe this is what you were saying.

FWIW, I read on the boos site where George Lynch uses a DS-1 for this as well.
Greg

[Andy J Dampier]

For a while my rig consisted of a Legacy and a DS-1....I suppose the best "Vai-ish" sound/sustain would be:

Tone: 9.5 o'clock
Level: 12 o'clock
Dist: 10 o'clock

That's with the Legacy gain set around 6-7.5...

Also, live Satch uses a DS-1 (Jap, both Satch and Vai use the Jap DS-1's)all the time...full on. There is no gain coming from the amp at all. (He also has a Fulltone or two...)

[goldboy]

To DMSWIFT:

Sure thing bro! *(Notice I say that I am 'speculating' on their use of it) *I did notice recently that Vai 'pared' down his rig from the '80s. I would also wholeheartedly agree that it sounds damned good in front of an all tube setup (I use it in pedal board for both a boost for my single coilish sounds and for the distortion it gives that is different from my lead channel).

However, I'll stand stand true to my analogy of "pedals are like crayons to color your tone".


P.S. *I actually stole that quote from Mr. Satch from an old interview..hehehe.

Cheers!

[RSVampire]

I agree with goldboy. The amp would be much more exspensive with a mod like. Of course people are going to say "I wouldn't care to have it" but if it were truly on it you'd be saying "hey where the heck is my mod?!?". Plus what if inthe future Vai makes his own booster pedal? Or completly switches pedals? The thing with the pedals is you can use any pedals you like. I'm sure Vai thought of all this while making the amp since he says "I wanted something classy but affordable so everyone can buy it and not just a few privilaged ones..." take it from the man himself, I'm sure he knows what he's doing...

[motogod927]

I read an interview where vai says he sets his amp up for a lightly distorted rythim sound and uses the ds-1 as a boost when hwe wants a little more gain.

[urkoman]

I use a Marshall 800 an a ds-1 and both Stach´s and Vai´s soounds are quite easy (plus a multi fx-A3 is mine). Just use some amp crunch, it depends oon the channel, and the ds-1 with tone set to 0 and the as much disto as you want. The Ds1 has the ability of maintain the tube sound of the amp, adding harmonics and a beatiful distortion.
Another one who uses this method: Zakk Wylde, with an SD1

[felipe82]

All the big players seem to do this, Satch with his tube Screamer, Vai with his DS-1.

Satch uses a DS-1 too, the tube screamer is for his harmonica.

[Two hands31]

Steve Vai played straight into a Korg PXR4 and still sounded like Steve Vai. What's your point?

[Bogus]

The Boss Ds1 sounds pretty good, but I would suggest that some of you guys try the Boss Super overdrive. I have heard rectifiers with the clean channel overdriven with a DS1 and a super overdrive, and I was very impressed with both results but the Super overdrive gives a little more clarity, and it doesn't sacrifice any mids. Its definetely worth a shot.