Mk50h vs Roadking II vs ??

[YngwieReid]

Hello Jemsite,

I'm hoping some one here could help me with this delema.... and it's G.A.S

These are different beasts thats for sure. I'm just looking for the one to cover the most ground for $2-3k.

Studio sessions // live environments

I've thought about the Mark IV ...it's just not for me. XTC 101b - $5400.00 no thank you. SLO-100 & Einstein kind of are what I'm looking for but still come with a dirty price tag.

So it's come down to the Mk50H and Roadking II..unless you can think of something else I maybe interested in.

The Roadking II seems to do everything I want. I'm just not entirely sure how it will handle blues//jazz//country. On the other side of the coin, I believe the Mk50h will be better at the things the Roadking is lacking.

If anyone could compare these for me, it would be wonderful!

Thank you for your time and responses,

~Alwin

[Andy43]

Originally Posted by YngwieReid

The Roadking II seems to do everything I want. I'm just not entirely sure how it will handle blues//jazz//country. On the other side of the coin, I believe the Mk50h will be better at the things the Roadking is lacking.

The one amp that actually doesn't lack a single thing is the Roadking. It can do it all. It has an incredible fendery clean channel for jazz and country. I've never played a Cornford before, but I doubt the clean channel can get any better. If you don't want/need the progressive linkage, you can save a few bucks by getting a Roadster.

However, if you don't play metal/hard rock, it would certainly be a waste to buy a Roadking. If you do though, nothing does it better. Just my opinion though.

[losgatosrg350dx]

ever hear of a redbear amp, its essentially i higher quality mesa and the tone is way better!!

[Drew]

Hey dude, haven't seen you around here or sevenstring.org in ages...

Rectifiers are surprisingly underrated amps for basically everything that's not metal. Sure, we all know they sound positively evil for heavy rhythm, but get that power section cooking and back off the gain and there's some pretty surprising lead sounds in there. I'll try to record you a few clips tonight or something, they're incredibly versatile amps.

The "Raw" mode can definitely do blues, but the clean channel, a Strat, and a Tube Screamer can sound surprisingly like a SRV track. More tripped-out Floyd-like lead textures are definitely there as well, and I've been running EL34's and getting quite authentic Satch sounds lately, too. And strangely, the Modern mode wiith the treble and presence low is an absolutely amazing lead sound, if you run a Hot Plate or something to keep the volume sane, or just open the thing up and hide behind something.

That said, I'm VERY curious to try a Cornford, I just haven't found one in the States.

By the way, have you gotten a chance to try a v2 Stilletto? I know a guy who bought one and then promptly sold his Bogner Excstacy, and I'm dying to give one a run, myself. Try the Ace, if you're not sure which is which - the Deuce and Trident exist in both forms, but the Ace was introduced with Series II.

Also, on the same token, if you don't really care about the option to run both EL34's and 6L6's, the Roadster is a nice alternative to the Road King, for a lot less.

[losgatosrg350dx]

Originally Posted by Drew

.....Rectifiers are surprisingly underrated amps for basically everything that's not metal. Sure, we all know they sound positively evil for heavy rhythm, but get that power section cooking and back off the gain and there's some pretty surprising lead sounds in there....

a rectifier amp actually doesnt hit harder and has nothing to do with boasting the sound

well built amps with ss rectifiers perform three times better and hit much harder, just requires a little more tuning and maybe a partial rack setup

inherently a rectified tube amp, utilizes the rec stages to "process" the current to be more effectively used in all the preamp and power stages.

the only draw back is that a recifier tube SLAGGS the current draw, wich is why rec. amps are often related to the most commonly desired "violin like sustain" effect that it produces

ive said it before and ill say it again, rec amps are way overrated, and the mesa's ive tried and heard, were nothing like a well built regular tube amp
for sustain purposes and more of a chording tone shape it is pretty much up there with the best amps made, but rec. amps have a way less responce time between fast notes...and they blend in too much

and for palm muting, shesh dont get me started i personaly hate the sound the mesa rec. amps have under palm muting teq.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by losgatosrg350dx

a rectifier amp actually doesnt hit harder and has nothing to do with boasting the sound

well built amps with ss rectifiers perform three times better and hit much harder, just requires a little more tuning and maybe a partial rack setup

inherently a rectified tube amp, utilizes the rec stages to "process" the current to be more effectively used in all the preamp and power stages.

the only draw back is that a recifier tube SLAGGS the current draw, wich is why rec. amps are often related to the most commonly desired "violin like sustain" effect that it produces

ive said it before and ill say it again, rec amps are way overrated, and the mesa's ive tried and heard, were nothing like a well built regular tube amp
for sustain purposes and more of a chording tone shape it is pretty much up there with the best amps made, but rec. amps have a way less responce time between fast notes...and they blend in too much

and for palm muting, shesh dont get me started i personaly hate the sound the mesa rec. amps have under palm muting teq.

I don't even know where to begin.

"Perform three times better" is a subjective statement. Perform three times more efficiently? Quite possibly, but I don't know the actual statistics. But still, any solid state amp will be "more efficient" than a vacuum tube, by its very nature. so why does everyone use tube amps? Because it's the very inefficiencies in transient response that give tube amps their warmth and musicality. I'm not saying all solid state amps are cold and unmusical (I happen to love every single Tech-21 product I've ever played), but that a good solid state amp is one that can reproduce the inefficiencies in transient response that give tube amps the warmth and smoothness that people value them for.

Now, reading your post, you seem to be arguing that Dual Rectifiers suffer from the very issues that make solid state rectification preferable to tube rectification, correct? "Less response time for fast notes," "they blend too much," right? So, let me counter, you're aware what their name means, right?

The thing is, ALL amps use some kind of rectification. Early guitar amps used tube rectifiers because there was nothing else. Over time, solid state rectifiers took their place for a little more headroom and faster response, translating into a "punchier" sounding amp. The Dual Rectifiers are named not for their two channels when they were debuted, but because they offer switchable rectification, as they give you the option to switch between faster-tracking, punchier, cleaner sounding tube rectification, and smoother, "sag"-ier, chewier tube rectification. In the latest incarnation of the basic poweramp design at the heart of a Rectifier (the Road King, the Roadster, and now the Stilletos even though they're technically a seperate line), you can even assign rectification by channel, so you can have a punchy, clear rhythm tone, and a more liquid, chewy lead tone from the same amp, on the fly.

I assume that's what you mean by "the mesas I've heard and tried were nothing like a well built tube amp for sustain purposes," right?

And a DR Channel 3 on modern will sound like absolute crap at guitar center friendly volumes with the typical GC kiddie "bass, treble, and gain on ten, mids on zero" sound. Trust me, I hated them for years until I finally got the hang of dialing them in. I impulse-bought one that same day.

[losgatosrg350dx]

Originally Posted by Drew

I don't even know where to begin.

"Perform three times better" is a subjective statement. Perform three times more efficiently? Quite possibly, but I don't know the actual statistics. But still, any solid state amp will be "more efficient" than a vacuum tube, by its very nature. so why does everyone use tube amps? Because it's the very inefficiencies in transient response that give tube amps their warmth and musicality. I'm not saying all solid state amps are cold and unmusical (I happen to love every single Tech-21 product I've ever played), but that a good solid state amp is one that can reproduce the inefficiencies in transient response that give tube amps the warmth and smoothness that people value them for.

Now, reading your post, you seem to be arguing that Dual Rectifiers suffer from the very issues that make solid state rectification preferable to tube rectification, correct? "Less response time for fast notes," "they blend too much," right? So, let me counter, you're aware what their name means, right?

The thing is, ALL amps use some kind of rectification. Early guitar amps used tube rectifiers because there was nothing else. Over time, solid state rectifiers took their place for a little more headroom and faster response, translating into a "punchier" sounding amp. The Dual Rectifiers are named not for their two channels when they were debuted, but because they offer switchable rectification, as they give you the option to switch between faster-tracking, punchier, cleaner sounding tube rectification, and smoother, "sag"-ier, chewier tube rectification. In the latest incarnation of the basic poweramp design at the heart of a Rectifier (the Road King, the Roadster, and now the Stilletos even though they're technically a seperate line), you can even assign rectification by channel, so you can have a punchy, clear rhythm tone, and a more liquid, chewy lead tone from the same amp, on the fly.

I assume that's what you mean by "the mesas I've heard and tried were nothing like a well built tube amp for sustain purposes," right?

And a DR Channel 3 on modern will sound like absolute crap at guitar center friendly volumes with the typical GC kiddie "bass, treble, and gain on ten, mids on zero" sound. Trust me, I hated them for years until I finally got the hang of dialing them in. I impulse-bought one that same day.

i was comparing tube amps only

solid state rectified tube amps vs tube recified tube amps!!!

i know tubes amps are the bestest for guitars, im just saying tube recitified tube amps dont hit harder they actually are less eficient and the responce function from input to the power amp...and all the way to tranny function is reduced by 4x im guessing, the responce time of a tube recifier amp is around 20+ ms (this is the rating for a dual rec mesa) and non ss rec. tube amp standard is about 12 ms

and well built ss rec tube amps can go all the way down to 2ms

peaveys sit at between 6-8
and engl sit at 2-4


wich is why those amps usually are the loudest and punchiest and most UMPH

the faster you can get the voltage to operate in the tranny the faster the speaker will hit and that relates directly to db gain

[Andy43]

Originally Posted by losgatosrg350dx

i was comparing tube amps only

solid state rectified tube amps vs tube recified tube amps!!!

i know tubes amps are the bestest for guitars, im just saying tube recitified tube amps dont hit harder they actually are less eficient and the responce function from input to the power amp...and all the way to tranny function is reduced by 4x im guessing, the responce time of a tube recifier amp is around 20+ ms (this is the rating for a dual rec mesa) and non ss rec. tube amp standard is about 12 ms

and well built ss rec tube amps can go all the way down to 2ms

peaveys sit at between 6-8
and engl sit at 2-4


wich is why those amps usually are the loudest and punchiest and most UMPH

the faster you can get the voltage to operate in the tranny the faster the speaker will hit and that relates directly to db gain

You do realize that ALL of the Rectifier's in the series are switchable to solid state rectifier, right? Also, there's nothing wrong with tube rectifiers, they are just different. Just because YOU don't like something that doesn't necessarily make it bad.

[jim777]

Originally Posted by losgatosrg350dx

i was comparing tube amps only

solid state rectified tube amps vs tube recified tube amps!!!

LosGatos,

There are some members of our forum that have proven their insight into various pieces of gear (and guitar playing in general) over a number of years as members here, and of those members, few if any of them have proven their credentials (and ear) as often and to the betterment of the Jemsite community as Drew has. I would ask that you consider Drew as an authority on any subject on which he speaks, as he has earned that distinction here through his contributions and assistance over many years. I understand you (losgatos) have only been here a few months, but it is important for you to understand that. Drew may not post here that often these days (having moderator status and therefore other duties on other boards), but he has been an epic contributor to Jemsite in the past, and we would hope to keep him and his opinions here as long as we can. Assume that he knows EXACTLY what he is talking about whenever he posts, as he NEVER posts for the sake of posting. Unlike me

jim

[losgatosrg350dx]

Originally Posted by Andy43

You do realize that ALL of the Rectifier's in the series are switchable to solid state rectifier, right? Also, there's nothing wrong with tube rectifiers, they are just different. Just because YOU don't like something that doesn't necessarily make it bad.

hey man i never said its not good, just the whole tube circuit puts a slagg on the actual voltage, ss rect. just respond faster and hit harder, tube drags the tone farther increasing saturation of freq....i didnt say it was bad, i just said ss rect. respond and amke the amp hit harder

[YngwieReid]

Originally Posted by jim777

LosGatos,

There are some members of our forum that have proven their insight into various pieces of gear (and guitar playing in general) over a number of years as members here, and of those members, few if any of them have proven their credentials (and ear) as often and to the betterment of the Jemsite community as Drew has. I would ask that you consider Drew as an authority on any subject on which he speaks, as he has earned that distinction here through his contributions and assistance over many years. I understand you (losgatos) have only been here a few months, but it is important for you to understand that. Drew may not post here that often these days (having moderator status and therefore other duties on other boards), but he has been an epic contributor to Jemsite in the past, and we would hope to keep him and his opinions here as long as we can. Assume that he knows EXACTLY what he is talking about whenever he posts, as he NEVER posts for the sake of posting. Unlike me

jim

Hence my join date and post count

No more hijacking please...back to the subject.

Andy43

- From what I'm hearing the Roadking can do it all. Just sometimes when things seem to good to be true, they are. I need it more for studio session work than anything. Just unsure of how the cleans are. Eventually I plan on having a rk100 or mk50h but as of right now the funds are not there for both.
From what you are saying though. The Roadking cleans should produce everything I'm looking for.

Drew

- Yes it's been much to long!! I hope everything is going well. I've taken a long break from posting, but I'm always around.

I cannot say enough about the Cornfords that I hear, unfortunately like your situation - I cannot play one in person. I would highly appreciate those clips. As I still enjoy your old tunes

-losgato

Hey yea, I actually love the Red Bears. They sound completely sick!! I wouldn't compare them to a Mesa though, more Marshall to my ears. However, I have my Marshall tones covered. The Bad Cat just eats.


Thanks for everyones time, and response.


~Alwin

[Drew]

Thanks Jim, I'm honored. And I totally post for the sake of posting and get things wrong a lot, too.

I may be in the minority here, but I actually love the Rectifier clean. It's nice and chimy, and has enough gain on tap to get pretty bluesy too. Most of the people who I've talked to who dislike the Recto clean do so not because of the tone, but because of the difficultyin balancing volume between the clean and the distorted channels while preserving clean headroom - it's tough to get a really pristine clean sound at gigging levels that isn't noticeably quieter than your distorted tune. Of course, I've alwaysd been a fan of slightly driven clean sounds anyway, so this is kind of a non-issue for me.

I'll try to record you a few clips or something.

[Andy43]

Originally Posted by Drew

Thanks Jim, I'm honored. And I totally post for the sake of posting and get things wrong a lot, too.

I may be in the minority here, but I actually love the Rectifier clean. It's nice and chimy, and has enough gain on tap to get pretty bluesy too. Most of the people who I've talked to who dislike the Recto clean do so not because of the tone, but because of the difficultyin balancing volume between the clean and the distorted channels while preserving clean headroom - it's tough to get a really pristine clean sound at gigging levels that isn't noticeably quieter than your distorted tune. Of course, I've alwaysd been a fan of slightly driven clean sounds anyway, so this is kind of a non-issue for me.

I'll try to record you a few clips or something.

This is true, but keep in mind that the Roadster/Roadking clean is at least 2x better than the other Rectifiers cleans and get plenty loud while still staying as clean as a button. The Roadster/Roadking cleans are based off of the Lonestar circuit.

[Gurj]

Originally Posted by Andy43

This is true, but keep in mind that the Roadster/Roadking clean is at least 2x better than the other Rectifiers cleans and get plenty loud while still staying as clean as a button. The Roadster/Roadking cleans are based off of the Lonestar circuit.

I've been very tempted with a Roadking. As I really liked the clean on my old triple rectifier, I'm even more tempted I think I might have to test one out before deciding to spend that much money on an amp.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Andy43

This is true, but keep in mind that the Roadster/Roadking clean is at least 2x better than the other Rectifiers cleans and get plenty loud while still staying as clean as a button. The Roadster/Roadking cleans are based off of the Lonestar circuit.

Sort of. It's actually the regular Rectifier clean, but with one added gain mode - "Tweed" onChannel one from I believe the Lone Star, and "Brit" from, well, not sure really on channel 2.

What I've heard though is that the Roadsters and the series II Road Kings, as well as basically all Rectos made after that point, have been biased a little warmer which makes them overall more musical sounding amps. I have an endorser buddy who sold a series I Road King for a Roadster, and couldn't believe the difference.