Most percussive tone/tightest low end

[dark_void86]

Hey there all! I love players such as Al Di Meola and Nuno Bettencourt, two such players that i feel embody rhythmical articulation and a wonderful, percussive side to their playing. So i, like so many guitarists, am on a never ending quest for tone!!! And for me there are so many qualities/textures that make up good tone to my ears its just insane.
However i wanted to discuss the equipment used for finding the most percussive sounds/tightest low end.
Here are some theories i have on the matter but more importantly if anyone should have any thoughts please say because the point of this is to learn more and share tonal secrets!

1. A good compressor helps add the "click" of the plektrum against the strings.
2. EMG's and high output pickups such as the X2N, L500XL, Dimebucker and JB are famous for helping give a good amount of meat and chunk to your low end at the bridge position.
3. A tubescreamer, (or any other overdrive good for this), with the level set to not change the volume of your sound and the drive/tone at minimal is famously used to warm up the sound and give you a tighter low end ontop of your natural amp distortion.
4. An EQ pedal in the effects loop has been also proved to help greatly tighten your bass and make the tone generally alot more thunderous!
5. Apparently brighter woods help keep the low end tighter and not as loose. However some people prefer to have the large sound of mahogany and compensate for certain frequencies with a generous bright maple cap. I am not too authoritative on my wood tones when it comes to sheer percussive qualities.
6. A rosewood fretboard is smooth sounding but a maple fretboard adds spank and attack to your sound. However from what i read ebony is the best for enhancing the percussive mids in your tone?
7. Not having your gain set all out but at the most 3/4 of its max will give you alot more attack straight from the amp.
8. Presence in a band situation and cutting through the mix means not scooping your mids!
9. Closed back non angled front cabnets help keep the speakers putting out a tighter bass response/aggressive sound.
10. Certain Speakers such as the infamous vintage 30 are quite famous in metal along with the greenbacks. However i haven't had much personal experience with either of them. One teacher i spoke to said players with a great attack tend to love older fashioned speakers that are 30 watts and lower and are at least 12 inches in diameter? (this is something i am also not too authoritative on!) But i know Nuno uses peavey 15 inch scorpion bass speakers he discovered when he had to use some cabs from his bass player's rig one day.

Anyways here are just a few things that i can think off of the top of my head. But i am always trying to think of more things to get my sound that much more percussive.

The basics of my own tone are Various guitars with the Bill Lawrence l500xl in the bridge > Analogman Maxon OD9/808 silver modded Tube Screamer > Keeley 4 knob Compressor > MXR SmartGate > Mesa F50 with a MXR 10 band EQ in the effects loop and an attenuator to help stop the amp from being fizzy at lower bedroom volumes. (but i am also aware of things such as a wah left at certain angles and transistor amps having naturally tighter bass responses however these two approaches don't really do it for me)

Hope to hear plenty of replies!!

Ian

[reguv760]

interesting points but here are my comments:

2. > I have to agree to disagree... it's the amp that's ends up amplifying the guitar and pup combination. a bassy amp usually balances out the pups ya mentioned.

4. > That depends on the EQ and head its connected to... really good amps tend to sound good without anything in the effects loop.

7. > hi-gain pups like you stated in #2 do NOT need the gain at max if you want to go ubermetal mode. @3/4 the way works good in terms of balancing the pup and amp being driven. Turning the gain less brings out the guitar's tone more.

8. >definitely agree with ya there

9. >tight bass response, yes... aggressive sound? that comes from the speakers and the combination of how the cabinet is made Angled cabs seem to "amplify" more... i think it has something to do with sound distribution physics...

10. >Adding a pair of 15's in your setup will definitely add some "boom" to a bassy guitar amp but it could also add some "thump" on a bright amp...

Reg

[Foulacy]

11) use heavier gauge strings

[dark_void86]

Originally Posted by judasbane

interesting points but here are my comments:

2. > I have to agree to disagree... it's the amp that's ends up amplifying the guitar and pup combination. a bassy amp usually balances out the pups ya mentioned.

4. > That depends on the EQ and head its connected to... really good amps tend to sound good without anything in the effects loop.

7. > hi-gain pups like you stated in #2 do NOT need the gain at max if you want to go ubermetal mode. @3/4 the way works good in terms of balancing the pup and amp being driven. Turning the gain less brings out the guitar's tone more.

8. >definitely agree with ya there

9. >tight bass response, yes... aggressive sound? that comes from the speakers and the combination of how the cabinet is made Angled cabs seem to "amplify" more... i think it has something to do with sound distribution physics...

10. >Adding a pair of 15's in your setup will definitely add some "boom" to a bassy guitar amp but it could also add some "thump" on a bright amp...

Reg

2. > So if you have a guitar with those sort of pickups and a bassy amp, the amp will simply negate their "chuggy" characteristics? Sorry i find that comment a little confusing.....

4. > Hmmmmm i found it generally to be the case with any valve head having an eq in the effects loop can drastically make it more percussive/tighter chug. I have seen it be effected in all kinds of amps from 100w marshalls to peavey valvekings and my own mesa...... my mesa with the mxr 10 band, the 100w marshall someone used a boss 5 band and the valveking i saw on youtube with a behringer 5 band. Hmmmmm i just presumed it was a generally large effect on valve amps.....

7. > Hmmm i don't really see the criticism here.... that statement sounds very very similar to what i just wrote myself.... (and meant in case i just came across wrong)

9. > For me having a tighter bass response helps provide a more aggressive sound. But then again i spose it all really comes from your right hand. What do you quantify as an aggressive sound?

10. > I take it you mean for example a mesa with 15inch speakers would not be really tight compared to putting them inside say a Marshall JCM800?

[reguv760]

2. I have an X2N in one of my axes and although some have considered it bright, it's sharp but definitely not piercing. Plugging that to a Mesa amp brings out the pups character; plugging that into a Marshall amp ends up too bright... Both cases, it's "chuggy" characteristic is there but sound different
I've only heard about Dimebuckers and L500XL's being bright as hell though I've never played either...

4. had an Alesis 31 band EQ many moons ago and I remembered doing a similar setup through a valve-head. Sure 31-bands is a whole lot to play around with but all it did was "colored" the amp... then again, the valve-head I had wasn't great to begin :P

9. Sure, aggressive picking can get you an aggressive sound, that is if your pickups/amp can amplify dynamics... an "aggressive" sound to me is a combination of hi-gain pups and a hi-gain amp + cabinet and playing style

10. In theory, yes though i've yet to try getting a pair of 15" myself... I think Vader cabinet makes 'em in a 2x12 format...

Reg

[Silverburst]

5-6. Just got an L500XL equiped N4 N3 , Maple fretboard on maple neck, and alder body. In terms of "percussiveness", it's the nr1 besides my basswood jem 7DBK and Mahogany Dean '79 MLF. I once was completely surprised the day I sold a Mesa DC-5 combo. The buyer brought his Mahogany EMG81-equipped Ibanez Iceman, sjaijt, that sounded tight compared to my RG570. So I wouldn't underestimate the type of wood all the vibration is going trough when you talk about aspects such as percussiveness.

2. I had an EMG81 in a RG570 that will be placed in the Dean '79 MLF because they like mahogany bodies more. but... if I want to play spanky rhythmic nuno stuff, I'll never grad that Dean. If I want to play tight palm muted face melting rhythm, I'll never grab the N4. In fact, the JEM is just between the 2 and is great for singing solo stuff.

So... be sure what you exactly want here. but when I read "Nuno Bettencourt", "rhythmical articulation" and "wonderful percussive", I think you getting there. Generally I would avoid EMG81 and mahogany in this equation. (there are exceptions of course).

3. apparently, until Nuno's randall was finished, he seemed to have used an old vintage Proco RAT in front of a (probably early era type) Marshall. Never testes a RAT before, so I'm curious to hear one, although the guys at Proco changed the parts over the years and they aren't the same anymore (you can buy the necessary replacement parts). Tubescreamer story all over the place

[Silverburst]

ah, and not to mention the very percussive way Nuno plays :-) so part is in his fingers and technique for sure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD8JQpOBYqs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQAKzHKEzoc

[dark_void86]

When i hear people talk about speakers all i hear about is the vintage 30s and greenbacks. However are there not any other speakers in the world worth mentioning?!? Especially when it comes to the topic?
Also no-one has mentioned anything about particular valves for this kind of sound quality? (i know next to nothing about valves!)
How about particular types of cabinets, cabinet woods and also makes/manufacturers?
Also how about people's fav overdrive pedals for tightening your bottom end on top of your amp's distortion? I hear as a stock pedal the maxon od808 has to be the best for this?
Favorite plektrums must also factor in. For example i think out of the jazz III picks the black ones are easily the most percussive. However my all time fav plectrum for a nice cutting sound, percussiveness and also angled scratchy alternate picked parts overall is easily the Paul Gilbert signature ibanez plektrum!


Come on there must be so much more to learn!!!

[shogun]

dark,

are you talking mainly about picking attack, i.e. paul gilbert?

[dark_void86]

Hmmmm well i used Al Di Meola and Nuno as examples and these guys get alot of their sound from their right hands/picking attack so i suppose yes! But this thread really is all about the sum of parts that you have with your gear that help exaggerate and pronounce that pick attack......

[shogun]

hard pick attack,
dunlop Jazz 3's
lots of mids
single coils
a limited amount of gain
low action