Need Suggestions (pt2) -Please Help- :(

[Morbid]

Alright, I've posted 2 threads regarding this similar problem, but I tend to acquire new information that changes things a little, so let me first start by telling you the problem I have.

I have a Mesa Boogie Mark IV A, which I love. My only complaint, is that in my experience, I seem to be able to only acquire either a Heavy & Crunchy Rhythm Tone, or a Liquidy Smooth Lead Tone, never both. If I get a somewhat heavy tone, my Lead Playing sounds very choppy, and not at all pleasing to the ear. When I have my usual Smooth Lead Tone, my Rhythm tone sounds nice, but still isn't as heavy as I want it to be. So I started looking at Overdrive, Distortion & Boost Pedals for an alternative solution.

So far I've tried the following, with no luck;
MXR ZW-44 (Gave me uncontrollable feedback and was noisy)
Real Tube Tube Works (Strangely enough, I felt as if I had less gain than without it)
Boss SD-1 (Very noisy pedal, not much of an audible difference)

I tried all 3 of those as Lead and Rhythm tones, and for obvious reasons, wasn't pleased with either.

My rig is as follows;
Furman PL-8 Series II
Voodoo Labs GCX
Rocktron Xpression (Will be replaced by an Eventide Eclipse in the future)
Mesa Mark IV
Mesa Boogie 4x12

Needless to say, the Voodoo Labs GCX will control my pedals, which will also put them in the FX Loop, so I need pedals that won't sound like **** in the FX loop, lol. I'm likely going to try getting an MXR 10 Band EQ for a Lead Boost/Smoother, but I'm still not sure what to do about getting a Heavy/Crunchy Rhythm Tone.
I'm not sure that my Mark IV can accomplish the Heavy tone I want on it's own, and even if I can, I'm not sure how I'll go about smoothing out the leads. Will the MXR 10 Band EQ work for that?

I've got 5 electric guitars, and I'm currently looking to replace my RG1620X's DiMarzio EVO pickups with DiMarzio Air Norton and D-sonic pickups (hoping the D-sonic will help with some crunch).


Ok, so I THINK I explained my problem enough.
Now, I need you guys to suggest solutions to me, since I know there are people out here with much more gear experience than me.

Thanks guys!

[waylay00]

I would never put an overdrive/distortion in the FX loop. There are no "rules" obviously, but the general consensus is to put time based effects and reverb in the loop, with OD/distortion, wahs, fuzzes in front of the amp.I'm sure there are ways to use the GCX without having to throw them all in the loop. (Edit: Yes, there are. See my post below)

It sounds like all you need is a good OD pedal to hit the front of the amp harder. I'd suggest the Xotic BB Preamp.

[waylay00]

Also:

Originally Posted by Morbid

Needless to say, the Voodoo Labs GCX will control my pedals, which will also put them in the FX Loop, so I need pedals that won't sound like **** in the FX loop, lol.

A minute or so of research yielded this from the Voodoo Labs main page:

http://www.voodoolab.com/gcxdiagrams...loop_AmpSw.pdf

You probably need to read that before anything.

[bammbamm]

Perhaps a sale of the Mark IV for a Triaxis?
Just a thought.

[Morbid]

Originally Posted by waylay00

Also:



A minute or so of research yielded this from the Voodoo Labs main page:

http://www.voodoolab.com/gcxdiagrams...loop_AmpSw.pdf

You probably need to read that before anything.

Ahhh, awesome! Why didn't I think of that? Killer, that'll help. Thanks a lot!
I had considered the BB preamp, but it's just so damn expensive

bammbamm: That crossed my mind once before, but I'd rather just have the Mark IV to be honest. The TriAxis 2:90 combo is more expensive than my Mark IV, and the overall consensus is that the Mark IV sounds nicer than the TriAxis on the Mark IV mode.
Iunno, I'd just rather have the Mark IV to be honest

[reguv760]

whoa... theres a lot going on here...

My only complaint, is that in my experience, I seem to be able to only acquire either a Heavy & Crunchy Rhythm Tone, or a Liquidy Smooth Lead Tone, never both.

This has been a problem with Mark III's but I'd never heard a Mark IV that couldn't do both! One of my friends has a Mark III who ended up changing the tubes to JJ's and had it biased to run hotter... He still has the same problem but has managed to live with this issue even after the fact!
As a Mesa player, "very* subtle tone-dialing is necessary. One minor tweak of the gain knob affects the tone for treble/mid/bass for the crunch and lead channels although I thought Mark IV's have their own separate EQ for Rhythm 1 and 2?

Needless to say, the Voodoo Labs GCX will control my pedals, which will also put them in the FX Loop, so I need pedals that won't sound like **** in the FX loop, lol. I'm likely going to try getting an MXR 10 Band EQ for a Lead Boost/Smoother, but I'm still not sure what to do about getting a Heavy/Crunchy Rhythm Tone.
I'm not sure that my Mark IV can accomplish the Heavy tone I want on it's own, and even if I can, I'm not sure how I'll go about smoothing out the leads. Will the MXR 10 Band EQ work for that?

how many other pedals are ya gonna put in the GCX? Actually, If you have a few extra loops to spare, use the GCX as a channel switcher for the Mark's external switching jacks just like waylay suggested. Use one of the GCX's FX outs to switch the Mark IV's EQ on/off. Doesn't the Rocktron have its own EQ and channel switcher as well? maybe you could try incorporating those features somehow into your setup. Will the MXR help at this point? I doubt one will be necessary but it wouldn't hurt to try placing one before the amp!

I've got 5 electric guitars, and I'm currently looking to replace my RG1620X's DiMarzio EVO pickups with DiMarzio Air Norton and D-sonic pickups (hoping the D-sonic will help with some crunch)

ahh yes, pickups, the root of any guitarists problem I have an Evo on my RG760 and a D-sonic on a 550. The Evo's are crunchy and can be heavy with the proper amp and setup. D-Sonic's are a step away from the evo's crunch but increased the thump and balls the Evo's somewhat lack while rolling-off the screechy-highs. While Evo's scream and snarl, the D-Sonic punches and growls!
Both should do fine with the Mark IV without any major tweaking although I'd personally start reconfiguring your current rig from a basic guitar -> amp setup first and build your sound starting from the pickup since an amp like a Mark IV will sound as great as the guitar it's amplifying
If ya want to place a boost before the amp, I've heard nothing but good things about the Fulltone OCD.

Reg

[Morbid]

Hey Reg, thanks for the suggestions. I'll try to cover all the bases here, lol.


Currently I've got some older (based on the looks of it)6L6GC's in the Mark IV. I have a Mark IV B for a short period with 2 6L6GCs and a pair of EL34's, and the crunch was much heavier, much nicer, but again, I hated the way the lead sounded. Perhaps I'm not tweaking it right, but I'm pretty sure that even on John Petrucci's current rig, he's running his Mark IV's in stereo, and the settings are the same, except for the preamp settings. Based on what I've read, he's got one Mark IV set for Rhythm, and one for Lead, which kind of leads me to believe I'm not the only one with this problem.
I'll consider a change of tubes as a last resort, because I've grown to like the 6L6GC's.


No, there isn't a separate EQ for the channels, only the one that I can either have on or off, and I typically prefer the EQ on, for all of the channels. It just sounds that much better to my ears.

I also intend on using the GCX for switching amp channels. That was the main reason I bought it.
As of now, I only intend on using 2 pedals with the GCX, the Rhythm Crunch Pedal and the Lead Boost/Smooth pedal, but I'm not beyond upgrading in the future, so I may very well add additional pedals one day.

I think the Rocktron does have some form of it's own EQ, but again, I intend on upgrading to an Eventide Eclipse as soon as the money is there, so I'd rather not bring the Rocktron into the equation that much. I'd hate to get things the way I want em, just to end up with an Eventide 2 weeks later, ya know what I mean?


I really got hot on the pedals idea when I saw a video demonstrating Andy Timmons' rig and saw that he uses a small assortment of pedals to change his sound. In fact, one of them was a tube pedal that seemed to create the majority of his distortion, and I really liked the way it sounded, but the Tube Works Real Tube I try was a variation of that pedal I believe, and it didn't work so great, lol.

Here is the video if anyone is interested; http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...96214394761186


Thanks again for the input guys, it is greatly appreciated.
The endless search for the 'perfect tone' is a road I'd rather not walk entirely alone, lol.

[Morbid]

No one else? =/

[millzy]

ive got the same problems with my amp, altho its nothing on your amp but i can get a really nice rhythm sound but my lead sound lacks, and when i have an OK lead sound my rhythm is far too tangy and bitey..ive resorted to new speakers and ill be re-tubing it soon enough, i still struggle to get a good lead tone anyways but when i do get one, it shall only last for a minute
im looking for a nice round tone, steve vai mixed with j.petrucci and some van halen esq. punch and lively-ness, lol

[screamndemon69]

Originally Posted by waylay00

I would never put an overdrive/distortion in the FX loop. There are no "rules" obviously, but the general consensus is to put time based effects and reverb in the loop, with OD/distortion, wahs, fuzzes in front of the amp.I'm sure there are ways to use the GCX without having to throw them all in the loop. (Edit: Yes, there are. See my post below)

It sounds like all you need is a good OD pedal to hit the front of the amp harder. I'd suggest the Xotic BB Preamp.

I have ALWAYS been told to NEVER put anything with GAIN in the FX loop. Like you said, delays and modulation only. Not sure if EQ's fall under gain but I would assume so since you can boost your signal with it. Correct me if I'm wrong here, just my 2cents

I think the OD is a good candidate for getting what you are looking for as waylay00 stated.

cheers,

Bones