New Marshall JVM410 is going away - what should I get?

trondulseth · #1 02-11-2008, 01:23 PM

A while ago I decided it was time to move up from my trusted old Johnson Millenium amp and to the real thing (tube amp).

The idea was to have a great 3 or 4 channel amp as the basis, and then put on effects later on when I can afford it (a Digitech GSP1011 was in my mind).

Could I have chosen freely I would have gone for the Engl Invader, but it was (and is) to pricey. Then I came upon the Marshall JVM410 - 4 channels, midi switchable - and the reviews were raving. So I jumped in.

The clean and crunch channels deliver, but spending 95% of the time in high gain territory that is where I really have to be happy. And the Marshall does not give. Well this is just a matter of taste I believe and it seems I'm not a Marshall guy.

But the real problem is this. When using the high gain channels the amp makes a lot of noise and feedback. And I'm not playing obscenely loud, and I keep the gain down to 12 o'clock trying to control it, but it does not help.

And over at the jvm410 forum I see the owners are putting noise canceling both in front of the amp, and in the effect loop. That is getting to be a lot of extra wires, 9v batteries and just plain hassle.

So my first question to you is: Are all hight gain tube amps like this?

And reading about changing tubes and re biasing and all this stuff I come to realize that maybe it's not a tube amp I'm after. It seems to much hassle. I want an amp where I can plug in and sound great night after night. I now miss the Millennium and thinking maybe a modeling amp is the right thing for me. They cant have gotten any worse since I bought the Johnson 10 years ago.

So the second question is: What amp do you think could be the right one for me? ( not asking what amp you would buy

)

I'm currently thinking maybe the Line6 HD147.

ps - For your information: Living in a small town in Norway rules out trying the equipment before ordering it. So I'm buying blindly (that's why I bought the Marshall, but is unhappy).

Thank you for reading and for any feedback. Peace.

shogun · #2 02-11-2008, 01:45 PM

is the 410 a head version? I tried the JVM and thought it was the best marshall ive ever heard, but still i wouldnt buy one lol.... what volume are u playing it at? people are going to tell you to buy a jsx, guaranteed.

Guitarmiester · #3 02-11-2008, 05:21 PM

When I was working at a music shop and we first got the JVM in, I honestly wasn't expecting anything great from it since Marshall hasn't released anything that lives up to the Marshall hype in a long time. I set the half stack up and plugged in. I sat there for a good hour or two playing the JVM. I was actually impressed. Not only does it sound kick ass cranked, it somehow sounds really good at bedroom levels as well.

There's a lot of gain on tap. With the gain above 12 o'clock the amp gets muddy and loses the tight sound it has. Even at 12 o'clock, that's more than enough gain for a heavy rhythm tone and/or screaming lead. I had the gain at about 11 o'clock most of the time. I didn't get any unwanted noise or feedback when it was cranked or at bedroom level. Maybe you were using crappy cables?

The Peavey JSX is nice amp, great cleans, but I can't stand the fizzy high end on both the Crunch and Ultra channels. The Crunch channel isn't as fizzy as the Ultra, but it's still there. I'd take a JVM over the JSX, that doesn't mean the JSX isn't a great amp.

Vinco · #4 02-11-2008, 05:49 PM

H&K switchblade perhaps?

4 channels and built-in digital effect.

Visit Hughes&Kettner website. There is a video available.

microdmitry · #5 02-11-2008, 07:05 PM

Take your JVM to a decent amp tech, and ask him to replace all resistors with metal film types on the first two or three amplification stages in the high gain channel.

As far as high gain and noise, yes, brighter amps will seem to have more noise, and Marshalls are bright amps. This has to do with perception more than anything else, mids and high mids are just easier for your ear to hear.

And, for a high gain amp putting noise gate anywhere other than the effects loop is stupid, because noise gate will introduce noise of its own, which will get ridiculously amplified by the amp.

trondulseth · #6 02-12-2008, 12:34 PM

Thank you for your replies.

@shogun: Yes it's the head I bought. It might very well be the best Marshall ever. The clean and crunch channels are really sweet. It's the high gain channels that bother me. I think I had far better high gain sounds from the Johnson.

@Guitarmiester: I also had not at all considered Marshall when starting looking around for a new amp, but the JVM looked promising. I agree that it sounds very good at bedroom levels also, even though there is a bit to much noise on the high gain channels there also. But I have the amp standing in the band rehearsal space so I never get to play it at bedroom level. And I'm not looking into the JSX to replace it, even though there was a time I was almost getting it (probably after reading around to much here on Jemsite :P )

@Vinco: Somehow I don't get the "I want it" feel from H&K. Only a gut feeling, and it has lead me in wrong directions before. Still I tend to listen to it

@micromitry: I might have to try that (if I can't find any buyers for it). What exactly are those resistors and how would replacing them affect the amp?

It's these kind of things - together with tube replacements, re biasing, the extra cords and stuff to have noise suppression unit etc. etc. that makes me have second thoughts about going tube. I was actually pretty happy with the Johnson sounds, and I never did anything but plug in and play - and somehow I can't believe that Line6 is any worse 10 years later.

microdmitry · #7 02-12-2008, 04:27 PM

Out of reasonably priced varieties, metal film resistors have the lowest thermal noise. They're also more stable than carbon ones over time and wrt temperature.

Your JVM might already have metal films, however, unless Marshall decided to squeeze a few pennies more in profit, like they usually do. So I suggest doing it just on the first amplification stage at first. If there's any difference in noise levels - your resistors are carbon film and you should replace them with metal film in the second and third stages.

microdmitry · #8 02-12-2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trondulseth

It's these kind of things - together with tube replacements, re biasing, the extra cords and stuff to have noise suppression unit etc. etc. that makes me have second thoughts about going tube.

That's Marshall for you. :-) They do sound good, but they're a bit of a pain in the ass.

Tank · #9 02-12-2008, 04:33 PM

Well I am not a big fan of the JVM either, but a friend has one and he solved his noise problem by simply putting an MXR Noise Gate in the Effects Loop only.

I play a JSX atm and love it, but the JSX has a built in Noise Gate (as have many Engl amps).

The Switchblade is definately a nice amp and I would prefer it over a modeller. H&K have a mixed reputation, simply because some of their amps are pretty awesome (I love the TriAmp MKII) and some sound crappy (Attax). Also all of their amps are pretty hard to setup and need lots of tuning on the knobs as they have a huge range of sounds and slight adjustments can lead to unwanted results. The Switchblade is no different, but has all the tones.

Lately I tested a Brunetti XL'Revo and a 059 and have to say, these Italian amps sound pretty awesome. The best cleans I ever heard and some really nice Crunch and insane high gains.

But in all the amps I had or tested, I always had a Noise Gate in the Loop... The MXR is pretty much awesome I think. I still have it around, even though my JSX has a built in one.

trondulseth · #10 02-12-2008, 07:58 PM

Ok - I'll stick a Noise Gate in the loop to see what happens then. I'd really like to see how the JVM sounds like with the gain cranked up. I probably won't be able to recreate the Exodus sound (which would be good for a few of the songs we play in my band) - even though the older stuff is (modded) Marshalls (their new stuff is XXX amps - on the crunch chanel).

Now - googling to confirm the above information I also found out that Exodus (Gary) prefers the noise gate in front of the amp and not in the loop. Read what he say here: http://www.exodusattack.com/toxicwal...d2baafd0b5c0fe

I have a Behringer noise gate laying around. I'll dig it up and give it a go (even though Behringer is not as good as the MPX or an ISP).

B.t.w - I'm not a trash guitarist, but ocationally goes into that territorry and would therefor like an amp which follows even there

trondulseth · #11 02-12-2008, 08:08 PM

@Tank - I've also looked at the Brunettis, but like Engl they are out of my price range right now.

waylay00 · #12 02-12-2008, 08:33 PM

Splawn Quickrod - $1850 for the head

Enough said!

trondulseth · #13 02-13-2008, 05:22 AM

Splawn has two international dealers listed on their website, one in New Zealand and one in Japan. Not really close to Norway any of them

Tank · #14 02-13-2008, 07:52 AM

Pal of mine had the Behringer Noise Gate and it was sucking tone like crazy. I don't know if that is the way to go, you might end up with less noise but possibly worse tone.

chris101 · #15 02-13-2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by microdmitry

Out of reasonably priced varieties, metal film resistors have the lowest thermal noise. They're also more stable than carbon ones over time and wrt temperature.

Your JVM might already have metal films, however, unless Marshall decided to squeeze a few pennies more in profit, like they usually do. So I suggest doing it just on the first amplification stage at first. If there's any difference in noise levels - your resistors are carbon film and you should replace them with metal film in the second and third stages.

Most Marshall amps now do come with metal film, even many of their crappy FX pedals do!