Opinions on the

hamand · #1 02-05-2001, 11:01 PM

Hi, I have in my filthy little hands the January '98 issue of "Guitar Techniques" magazine (I live in England, so I don't know if you get this elsewhere). There is a nice interview with Reeves Gabrels in which he mentions that he uses the simple setup of Roland VG-8 into a power amp and then to the 4x12s on stage.
Fair enough, but here's the excerpt that got me to thinking:

"The guys from Boogie came to see one of the shows when we were playing in San Francisco and they were saying 'This sounds amazing, but we didn't see any mikes on the cabinets...'
"I love Boogies and I'm a Boogie endorsee, but for dependability and portability, I'm using the Roland."

So, it must be pretty good, right? If it can fool the people who make the damn amps?! *Anyone have any opinions?

(Edited by hamand at 10:09 pm on Feb. 5, 2001)

Gabe Nickelson · #2 02-05-2001, 11:32 PM

The Roland VG-8 is simply amazing! *Although the tracking on the GK2 can be a little better, the VG-8 unit itself has great capabilities.

I don't understand why Reeves ran it through the cab - just run it right to the board!

The modeling is incredible. *This unit has been out now for at least 3 1/2 years. *Imagine turning your guitar into a Les Paul or a Strat with nearly perfect simulation. *You have full control over every small detail including pickup configs (location on the guitar up to the 12th fret!) and amp controls. *You can pick your cab and amp (with full knob controls) - even virtually mic that amp anywhere you choose with a wide selection of microphones.

You must try this to understand the power behind it. *I don't mean sit down with it for an hour or so - get into it- take a day or week to see what it has to offer.

I only wish I had one of my own. *I borrowed one for a while and didn't want to return it.

Gabe

Josh Blagg · #3 02-06-2001, 07:45 AM

Reeves Gabrels is more amazing than any product Roland makes. *He has a very good ear and has programmed the synth to his likings. *You can download his patches that he created for $49.95 off his website by the way. *At least he plays Parker and used to play Steinberger....now that is a classy guy...except for the vibrator thing.

cltek · #4 02-07-2001, 07:04 AM

LMAO! *Opinions?! *OPINIONS?!?! *We all have opinions on all that is 'tone'.

My opinion? *Good tone can be had by most of the Mediocre equipment on the market today. *It's just as much of a question of who is doing the tweaking as it is the equipment. *I saw Jeff Beck playing through a POS Polytone (Solid State keyboard amp) Years ago at a NAMM show and he sounded AMAZING.

Reeves is no slouch by any means. *And I'm sure he could get just about anything to sound good. *Heh! *If I had a VG-8 or VG-88, and the proper amount of time necessary to 'know' the unit, I'm sure I could get something at the least 'usable' out of it. *LOL... *Just kidding. *The VGs are awesome! *

As for my personal experience... *I did some recording for a friends cd last year using a POD, Roland COSM stuff (Onboard a VS) and a Modded JCM800 through V30 loaded 4x12 cabs. *When the 'Tone Gurus' listened back... *No one could really tell what was what. *Some of the cheesier tones came from the COSM stuff. *But that's what we were going for at the time. *Other than that, no one could tell the difference.

Further example... *As related by Tom Morello... *On one of the tours that RATM was on, Tom and a friend of his sat through the whole gig listening to the tone of each guitarist in the line up noticing that the 'quality' of the tone was NOT strictly related to the 'quality' of the equipment that each guitarist used. *And that, my friends, is why Tom has been using the same amp, etc... *for what seems like eons. *

Oh... *BTW... *Tone is *NOT* in the fingers!!! *LOL

Respectfully, Cory

(Edited by cltek at 6:22 am on Feb. 7, 2001)

Jimi D · #5 02-07-2001, 07:53 AM

I read that interview with Reeves and was struck by the same line (I buy Guitar Techniques, Total Guitar, Guitarist and The Guitar Magazine pretty regularly, btw - I think the US mags are complete crap by comparison)... I've played with both the VG-8EX and VG-88 in the store and though I am very impressed by both, I haven't decided to shell out for one yet. I agree with Gabe re: the GK-2a's tracking, and though you can use the VG-8 without the GK-2 pickup, you lose a lot of the functionality. So I'd want a production guitar with a factory installed GK (probably one of the Godin's), and that's another $1000, and no trem, but the pup doesn't track as well without a trem, but there's always the $3000 Parker, but that means I'm looking at an outlay of $4500... etc. etc...

Quote:

Oh... *BTW... *Tone is *NOT* in the fingers!!!

No, it's in the EARS. The best fingers in the world won't help you if you can't hear worth a damn.

(Edited by Jimi D at 6:57 am on Feb. 7, 2001)

darren wilson · #6 02-07-2001, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Quote: from Jimi D on 6:53 am on Feb. 7, 2001
No, it's in the EARS. The best fingers in the world won't help you if you can't hear worth a damn.

Heh. Great observation, Jimi! I never really thought of it that way, but it's so true. When amazingly gifted players have NO idea what's happening after the notes leave their fingers, they turn into average players with average tone.

I played with a guy back in high school who had fleeting fingers, but didn't have a clue how to set his gear up to get a decent tone, or to play notes that really moved you. Even after having me tweak his settings to get a tone that sounded great when i played through his rig, he just had no aural sensitivity, and it sounded flat and lifeless when his hands and ears were in control.

I think it all could be chalked up to lack of "musical ears".

Gabe Nickelson · #7 02-07-2001, 02:52 PM

One more thing I remember about the VG-8 from an artist perspective... Kirk Hammett used this on the entire 'Load" album (according to Roland's adverts).

Once you get through the bible-length instructions, booklets, leaflets, flyers, etc... in the box, you should have a decent feel of how to work it. *The best thing to do is to sit down after reading up on it and just start pushing buttons and spinning knobs. *It'll all fall in place.

I still have only opened up about 1/2 of what this unit is capable of. *As most Roland electronics, it's just WAY WAY overkill in small details... at least for my tastes.

As far as the base unit price though, I don't really mind paying 'high Roland prices' if the product is good. *You have to think about how much development went into one of these things. *Baffles the mind.

What really pisses me off is that right when you buy a Roland product they release these expansion packs or effect unit add-ons that are overpriced. *I mean, they've already developed the product so creating extra FX shouldn't cost nearly as much as they ask. *But I'm sure most people (like myself) will fall into this trap and get it. *It's all about having the biggest and baddest toys around.

Gabe

bob oakman · #8 02-07-2001, 03:12 PM

Gabe, Obviously you dig this rig. Being an old Marshall guy myself, I am surprised that you are that impressed by a modeling unit. It must be pretty smokin’.

Would you personally shelve the Marshall in favor of a VG-8?

I have not tried one and I only ask because, though I am impressed by the POD, there seems to be some subtle responses missing from modelers that I have only been able to reproduce with a real tube amp. Even my Legacy lacks the versatility I would like, so I can understand the Rolland’s superiority in that department. Perhaps it’s speaker emulation to which I refer. I’m not sure.

I guess I’ll have to try one.

Everybody has been singing about the Line 6 products, but I haven’t heard much about this one. Is it just a well kept secret or have I been spending too much time under my rock again?

rgr · #9 02-07-2001, 04:23 PM

It's a different bird Bob, to use the VG-8 you have to have one of those hex pickups that converts the strings vibration to a digital signal, then the VG-8 takes the data and turns it into whatever you want, even retunes the bloody thing if that's what you want. *

The reason you don't hear about them is that they are a little beyond the average person's wallet. *

Roger

hamand · #10 02-08-2001, 12:12 AM

Jimi D, I'm not sure why you quote the Parker specifically?

darren wilson · #11 02-08-2001, 12:40 AM

Brian Moore also has a trem-equipped guitar with synth access built-in... the iGuitar. Probably even more expensive than the MIDIFly, though. And Godin does make an LGXT with synth access and a trem (that's what the T is for).

You know, it probably wouldn't take much for Ibanez/L.R. Baggs to graft a hexaphonic MIDI controller onto the DoubleEdge trem. It's already a hexaphonic pickup... it just needs a bit more circuitry.

Jimi D · #12 02-08-2001, 06:50 AM

hamand ~ what was the question?

hamand · #13 02-08-2001, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Quote: from Jimi D on 6:53 am on Feb. 7, 2001
So I'd want a production guitar with a factory installed GK (probably one of the Godin's), and that's another $1000, and no trem, but the pup doesn't track as well without a trem, but there's always the $3000 Parker, but that means I'm looking at an outlay of $4500... etc. etc...

Pardon me if I wasn't too clear - I meant: how come you mention the Parker specifically, as opposed to any other guitar? I've been hearing loads of great things about Parker guitars in the last couple of weeks, and I think the universe is trying to tell me something.

dwswift · #14 02-08-2001, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Quote: from darren wilson on 11:40 pm on Feb. 7, 2001

You know, it probably wouldn't take much for Ibanez/L.R. Baggs to graft a hexaphonic MIDI controller onto the DoubleEdge trem. It's already a hexaphonic pickup... it just needs a bit more circuitry.

Didn't Rich mention that Ibanez had some J-Customs with MIDI pickups at NAMM this year? *The J-Customs of today sometimes turn into the production models of tomorrow...

cltek · #15 02-08-2001, 10:48 PM

Hey Bob... *You're right on the money about the subtleties that are missing from the DMs (Digital Modelers) that are out and about. *From my limited experience recording with the POD, you can fake-out the majority of the 'tone snobs' by adding dimension with Mic Sims. *Just a hair of distance, etc... *You know what I mean. *That *comes from a listeners point of view however. *When I play through the Line 6/Johnson/Roland/What have you... stuff, you can tweak the daylights out of it until it 'sounds' right. *But the *FEEL* isn't there. *These things don't react at all like tube amps, IMHO. *They are totally different animals, none more valid than the other. *

That being said... *I'm still, what my tube purist friend calls an *INFIDEL* because I strongly support all of this new technology. *STRONGLY! *

Rog... *The last time I dinked aroun with the VG-88 I was astounded with the capabilities it possessed. *But, if I'm not mistaken, the list on that thing (with the GK2) was something like $2,500!!! *I'm curious to know what the going price is these days. *Do you have any idea?

Respectfully, Cory