Pedal placement in signal chain

[carlos seo]

Hello guys! It's been a while since I last posted here. But now, in on vacation and I can finally visit this site again!

I have a dumb question about my signal chain. It goes like this:

Guitar -> Dunlop GCB-95 -> Ibanez TS-808 -> amp

Then, the FX loop:

amp -> BOSS GE-7 -> Danelectro DE-1 -> Morley PVO -> amp

In this chain, the volume pedal is just working as a volume controller. If I put the PVO between the TS-808 and the amp, it would control the distortion level, right? I'm using the distortion from the amp, of course.

Can I use the volume pedal as an expression pedal to control the intensity of an effect? Like delay or chorus, for example? I've seen a lot of guitarists using two, three or even more volume pedals in their pedalboards. What for?

Thanks!

[Black Napkins]

-the only way to control the intensity of an effect is to use an Expression pedal (not a volume pedal): for instance boss EV, or a pedal included in foot board (expression pedal got only 1 ouput, and no input).Then you septup in your multieffect which effect will be altered).

-as your volume pedal is actualy in the loop, she only control the amount of wet signal in the mix (0% to 100%).I think it's useless......the best place is right after your guitar to control the volume and the "gain": like in "tender surrender" you can go between a clean to distorted sound with your pedal

-An expression pedal can control serveral effect at the same time but, it's easier to have 1 pedal by effect

[Gresh]

Black Napkins in right, get the volume pedal out of the effects loop. If you are using pre-amp distortion, which you say you are, then by placing the vol pedal right after the guitar would be equivalent to using your volume knob on your guitar, it reduces the signal level going to the pre-amp thereby reducing the amount of gain exiting the pre-amp section.

[carlos seo]

Are there any other cool uses for a volume pedal?

[EKG]

Originally Posted by carlos seo

Are there any other cool uses for a volume pedal?

"Whispering A Prayer" - Alive In An Ultra World

[Two hands31]

Originally Posted by Eddie Kolesar

"Whispering A Prayer" - Alive In An Ultra World

That's volume pedal + sustainiac I'm pretty sure. But yeah, that works. I would've said "Outlaw Torn" by Metallica, but that works too.

[mike777]

[quote="Black Napkins"]-the only way to control the intensity of an effect is to use an Expression pedal (not a volume pedal): for instance boss EV, or a pedal included in foot board (expression pedal got only 1 ouput, and no input).Then you septup in your multieffect which effect will be altered).

-as your volume pedal is actualy in the loop, she only control the amount of wet signal in the mix (0% to 100%).

If you use a volume pedal before the signal goes into a distortion circuit (whether it's in the pedal or the amp), you will experience less distortion as you lower the volume. If you control the volume after the distortion, the sound will remain the way it is set and only it's volume will change. You may want to have ambient effects like delays and reverbs AFTER the volume pedal so that when you reuce or cut the volume, the signal will decay more naturally.

As for expression pedals, these will only affect the intesities of effects that have a jack available for use with an expression pedal. An expression pedal is really a real-time foot-controlled pot that controls a function of the main device that can be controlled manually. An audio signal doesn't actually pass though it.

Artistically, you may do anything you want but I feel this order of effects give the most natural and consistent results.

Compressors
Pitch Shifters/Octavers
Distortion Circuits
Frequency and Amplitude modulation devices (Cho, Flg, Trem, Phs)
EQ
Noise Reduction
Volume Control
Ambience (Delay/Reverb)

Wahs I left out since their results vary on the range capabilities of the pedal and the tonal adjustments in the signal chain and where those adjustments take place.

Hope this helps.

Mike 777 Haug

[carlos seo]

Originally Posted by Eddie Kolesar

"Whispering A Prayer" - Alive In An Ultra World

Oh yes...volume swells... that's nice too!



Thanks for all the info guys! BTW, I have 2 more questions about pedals:
- Where in the signal chain does Steve use his volume pedal?
- What are you currently using for distortion? I mean, for sounds like Vai and Petrucci.

[Black Napkins]

Originally Posted by carlos seo

- Where in the signal chain does Steve use his volume pedal?
......Right before his guitar i think


- What are you currently using for distortion? I mean, for sounds like Vai and Petrucci.
I suppose you mean the "distortion pedal" (sd1 is more an overdrive), this pedal is use to boost the amp (on the clean channel:light overdrive/on the disto channel: boost the gain).On a Good valve amp this kind of pedal just overdrive the valve, but you can't hear the real sound of the pedal (Your T808 will be smoother than the sd1)

[carlos seo]

One more question about pedals: I use many of them and as you already know, the more elements in your signal chain, the more signal degradation you have (unless you have all impedances equal, which is impossible in a guitar rig). So, what can I use or build to prevent signal degradation?

[Black Napkins]

The only way i see to avoid loss in the signal is to use none or few pedals before the amp: ts9+volume pedal work well (when i put a whammy it's begin to alter the signal ).And the use of one good multieffect in the loop and fine too(delay+reverb+eq).

So i think you have to choose (all of us have tons of pedals to plug in front of the amp, but a drasctic choice is vital) 1 or 2 pedal (+volume) and keep the other in their boxes.

[carlos seo]

So, the pedals in front of preamp section are the big trick? I currently have 3 before the amp: volume, wah and TS-808. Oh, and how do you setup your TS-9 dials?

In the FX loop I have this: eq, volume and delay. My amp has a spring reverb, so I don't need a reverb pedal.

I was thinking about assembling a circuit that reduces the signal impedance just after the guitar, so it could survive long travels through any cable length and number of FX pedals. The VHT Valvulator is a tube unit that does this, but it's too expensive. My idea is build an equivalent circuit using transistors. What do you think? Would it work?

[mike777]

I feel very self-conscious about something I put in my last post and I don't want to provide bad info and/or look like a fool so I'd like to ammend something. I remembered this last night from past experience. An exception to my personal "rule" of the effects signal chain:

If you are using reverb and a tremolo unit simultaneously, you'll want to tinker with the settings and the order a bit. If you are using a very "wet" reverb setting and are using the tremolo before the reverb, the tremolo effect may get less dynamic since the volume of the reverberation may fill the "gaps" in the tremolo effect almost cancelling it out.

I know I'm reading WAY too into this but, well, I felt weird about it.

Mike Haug

[d. troy castro]

Can someone help me with coming up with an optimal effects chain?
I think it's pretty close, but I would love any suggestions or imput.
I have an Ernie Ball Volume Pedal, that I'm not sure I want to use, or where to put it (suggestions), That being said, This is what I'm running in front of the amp (Marshall JCM 900- Clean) in order.

1- Digitech Whammy
2- Keeley Compressor
3- Morley Bad Horsie Wah
4- Subdecay Flying Tomato Mutant Fuzz
5- Fulltone Full Drive 2 Mosfet
6- Boss GE7 Equalizer
7- Boss TU2 Tuner
-------------------------------------------------
IN THE EFFECTS LOOP

Boss DD6 Digital Delay?



Thanks for all the help.

Troy