TC Electronics G-Force - praises and gripes...opinions anyon

chilln2music · #1 07-29-2001, 11:07 PM

Im in the market for a more guitar friendly processor as I'm selling my Lexicon PCM 81. I'm looking into the G-Force. I know the delays and reverbs and chorus on the Lexicon are incredible and thats what I've grown to love but its impractical to have all the drum vocal synth and other effects sitting in my rack unused just to have 3 superior quality effects (at least right now).

So I want peoples opinions on the G-Force. The biggest thing for me is the DELAYS REVERBS AND CHORUS. Any opinions on the quality of these effects would be greatly appreciated. I'd also love to hear your favorate and least favorate aspect of the unit.

Also is the unit totally transparent and have no tone degradation when running it in series without the FX loop? and how long do program changes take? Does it have a "transparent" mode where it lets all the signal through until the effects load or does it drop out your signal completely until the program loads (if so how long is the drop out)?

Thanks!

Josh Blagg · #2 07-30-2001, 06:57 PM

I think it is a tone killer personally. *It can make your organic guitar sound muddy and fake. *I don't care how much it costs and what touring professionals use it, I think it sucks tone out while providing nothing you need that you can't already get in a pedal form.

jay ratkowski · #3 07-30-2001, 09:39 PM

I have to agree with Josh.

I currently have a GForce, and I liked it a good deal back when I was a Legacy guy and needed all the help I could get. *However, these days I've noticed that it really does destroy the natural tone of your amp. *Even if you like digital muddyness, I still wouldn't get it... because it is noisey. *In order to get rid of the noise, you have to use a noisegate, which will ruin any chance you have at tone further.

If you want a good deal on a mint one, check here ebay for mine in the near future... However, I'd recomend looking elsewhere

chilln2music · #4 07-30-2001, 09:51 PM

interesting...but Jay...what noise gate are you using? A gate can't effect your tone (it just opens and closes the signal coming through). I use a dbx anyway for gateing and compressing. What other FX units would you suggest then? I'm also looking into the MPX 1 as it is more user friendly even though it has half the reverb processing as the PCM 81. What do you think?

jeffrey · #5 07-30-2001, 09:57 PM

Hrm.

Interesting. I played with a G-Force extensively on my home rig and absolutely loved it. I had no problem with "noise" or the "muddyness" that was spoken of.

As soon as I can afford one I intend on picking it up, I just have other things I need first.

jay ratkowski · #6 07-30-2001, 10:17 PM

Actually a gate DOES have an affect on your tone. *Most gates tend to act as limiters where they will cut out "unwanted" noises and frequencies... which generally interferes with the dynamics of your playing but hurting lower frequencies.

Josh Blagg · #7 07-30-2001, 10:41 PM

Anytime frequency gets cut out, it WILL affect your tone. *Depending on the ear of the player, it may or may not get noticed.

jeffrey · #8 07-30-2001, 11:01 PM

Gates generally don't, Hush's however do.

jay ratkowski · #9 07-30-2001, 11:10 PM

Here is the dbxpro.com description of their 904 Noise Gate

The 904 is an expander gate using dbx's OverEasy® action for a smooth onset of gating. Attenuation limit, attack and release rates and threshold are all adjustable. This popular gate also features Programmed Latch Mode which mutes a channel until an above threshold signal is present. It then latches open until reset.

The 904 is a very fast voltage controlled below threshold downward expander. It senses the level of an input or keying signal and determines whether the level is below threshold. If it is, the signal gets attenuated; if not it passes at unity (0 dB) gain. The amount of signal attenuation is a function of its own level and the 904's Attenuation, Limit, Ratio, and Threshold settings.

So DBX themselves say that it alters the signal in some way. *Therefore, your tone WILL be affected. *Whether or not YOU notice it is up to your ears. *I notice a change on every noise gate I've ever used... from the pod, to the GForce, to top of the line studio plugins.

jeffrey · #10 07-30-2001, 11:26 PM

Well that said everything effects your tone. :P

That's a given. Cords, batteries, strings, signal cables, you name it. There's nothing that you can put between your guitar and your amp that doesn't in some way effect your tone.

jay ratkowski · #11 07-30-2001, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Quote: from jeffrey on 9:26 pm on July 30, 2001
Well that said everything effects your tone. :P

That's a given. Cords, batteries, strings, signal cables, you name it. There's nothing that you can put between your guitar and your amp that doesn't in some way effect your tone.

I know that, and it's true. *So why ruin it further by adding a useless high-voltage unit into the chain when you could just avoid all that hassle by having quiet-running effects in the first place?

jeffrey · #12 07-30-2001, 11:43 PM

Well like I said, I didn't experience all the hum and noise that you guys did with the G-Force. Maybe I'm lucky or something or my Rivera just has a really good effects loop. Some of my older gear was noisy, but the G-Force was fine for me. I'd love to get one.

*shrug*

jay ratkowski · #13 07-30-2001, 11:48 PM

Another thing I noticed about every GForce I've played... is that when bypassed... the volume is slightly louder than when the effects are running (any combination of any effects). *This is when the in/out volumes on the unit are directly at 12 o'clock.

Now, to compensate for that decrease in volume... you have to turn the in/out volumes up more... this can produce too hot of a signal (hotter than when the unit is not plugged in at all) and I think that alone will affect your tone (to a greater degree than just using an extra cable).

Josh Blagg · #14 07-31-2001, 08:47 AM

The in/out volumes on the G-Force itself greatly influence your tone, and unless setup properly (if this is even possible), the tone will take a big hit. *Think about it. *I know people were running 50 and 100 watt amps really high, and then running the G-Force in the effects loop. *However, their outputs were very low, and this could only mean one thing. *They were trying to use the G-Force as some kind of volume control, which grounds for making mud.

Now with the messing around I have done with the G-Force, I couldn't get a tone I could stand playing with. *I kept finding myself turning the unit off and playing guitar-into-amp. *No matter how much the unit costs, it still sounds like digital, fake reproduction of good analog stuff. *I've never run across the type of effects the G-Force tries to emulate in pedal form that I didn't like better. *With the digital delay, they had a chance, but I don't even like the way it sounds (and I also prefer analog delay).

A lot of people like the G-Force, and that is fine. *I tend to focus on analog equipment for my effects as it always seems to be warmer and provide richness for the tone. *From my personal experiments, the G-Force takes a lot of the organic qualities out of the tone and thus I found myself using just the guitar/amp setup with no G-Force.

chilln2music · #15 07-31-2001, 04:13 PM

I don't care if you think gates effect tone or whatever I'm content with my gate.

Now about the G-Force. Josh how were you running the G-Force with your setup? in the FX loop or in series with preamp/power amp or what? I plan on running everything in series while putting the compressor in the FX loop of the preamp (with the Lexicon this sounds best).

I'm still curious as to what processors would meet Jay's and Josh's standards as well.