The quest for a good tone in a head continues - following my

jem7vwh · #1 07-09-2001, 06:34 PM

OK, so I went out today and here's what I did.

Mesa Boogie
* Single Rectifier. *I liked it best in Spongy mode with Vintage gain. *Kinda smooth, but not enough saturation. *I couldn't seem to get enough gain without losing all the body and smoothness.

* Double Rectifier. *This was another step closer when I switched it from Diodes to tube and to Spongy. *Closer, but no cigar.

* Mark IV. *Decent tone and I liked the EQ, but it didn't have enough distortion. *Like Yuza, I am looking for a creamy distortion that is high gain but very fluid sounding. *Unfortunately, I keep finding Pantera or AD/DC.

Marshal

* Valvestate. *I couldn't wrestle a good tone out of this one at all. *Plus the footswitch crapped out on me.

Crate

* GFX. *This is a really big combo amp. *I loved the distortion, but the eq controls were less than spectacular. *So far the best tone, but not what I want in an amp.

* Blue Voodoo. *I really like the gain again here. *But I've heard bad things about the workmanship and I wasn't willing to pay the $$$ just yet.

Peavey

* 5150. *This comes closest to the type of gain I wanted. *It's perfect for my rhythm sound, but it needs a little more compression for that Vai-lead sound. *Maybe just a compression pedal?

so in summation, of the amps I tried today the 5150 was best, followed by the Blue Voodoo. *

Unfortunately, I couldn't locate a Carvin, a Bogner, a Soldano, or an Egnator. *Any other suggestions? *Does my idea of a 5150 plus compressor sound good? * I know Steve always said used a Boss Super Overdrive. *Would that accomplish the same thing?

**jemsite** · #2 07-09-2001, 07:02 PM

i was with you until you raved about the 5150. at that point i am lost. at the price range you're trying, you need to look into better marshalls (DSL/TSL) not valvestates. Try to find a used Silver Jubilee also... glen

lgascoig · #3 07-09-2001, 08:28 PM

As you know, the 5150 is the highest gain head there is with 6 gain stages as opposed to 5 which Soldano and Mesa's use, so you're already asking a lot... *Perhaps changing tubes on the 5150 might get you to what you're looking for.

You also might want to try a Laney if you can find one.

jem7vwh · #4 07-10-2001, 01:57 AM

Glen, why didn't my post about the 5150 make sense? *I presume you're not a fan of them? *

What I was saying was that of all the amps I tried, it came closest to the type of gain I was looking for. *It had tons of gain without sounding harsh and raspy. *My only problem was getting that last little bit of omph out of it for lead tones, although I suspect that could be cleared up with a compressor or overdrive. *I've never liked Marshalls before. *There were always very raspy and dry when I tried them. *Maybe I need to search for a nice one.

**jemsite** · #5 07-10-2001, 02:02 AM

yes, i am not a fan of the 5150, but either way a pedal in front can do alot and i would demo amps w/ a pedal such as the ds-1 or sd-1... glen

jay ratkowski · #6 07-10-2001, 03:30 AM

I'm sure a lot of the old forum people remember my amp search...

Trust me, it's nowhere near as easy as just going "hey, what should I buy?" *You really really have to dig and dig. *Go research EVERY amp you can find, no matter how absurd the name is... and if it appeals to you, look into them more... if it really appeals... then find a way to test one out... maybe you'll fall in love.

Josh Blagg · #7 07-10-2001, 04:31 AM

Better than trying things in a store is trying things in your house over a period of weeks or months. *If you have the cash, find a good price on a used item you think you might like from demoing and research. *You want to find a price where if you end up selling it later, you can get your money back. *If you break even, then you have essentially "rented" the equipment for free. *I found that playing stuff in a store is distracting, misleading, and very unthorough.

So you like the 5150? *Well, at 120 watts, I almost guarantee you didn't have the volume on 10. *Trust me when I tell you that ALL of the goodies come with the tubes fully driven. *Only then will you get the compression you are looking for.

Suggestion: *Marshall JCM 800, 50 watts, with a boost or gain pedal in front of it, and a THD Hotplate so you can run it wide open.

Rich · #8 07-10-2001, 04:49 AM

Best tone I ever had was an early 800/50, of course it was wide open, and my DS1 was too :biggrin: It was a friend of mine's, would have loved to buy it but we lost touch. I also had a Peavy Vintage 120 combo, 6 10's, tweed case. I loved the tone of that thing too! It had this wierd bug where if you bent a string you'de get a sympathetic note bending in the opposite direction to the same degree as the original, like in harmony. Probably just a bad tube or something but I *loved* that!! Ouch was that thing LOUD!! It was always wide open, with my trusty ole DS1 too. I bought my first one in 83' so that DS1 had been with me a long time.

jem7vwh · #9 07-10-2001, 09:48 AM

groovy. *so how much can I expect to pay for the JCM 800 and the hotplate?

rgr · #10 07-10-2001, 12:18 PM

You should be able to find an old 800 for around $500-$600 on ebay or somewhere. *Unfortunately they are getting collectable. *They are by far my favorite Marshalls. *I hear good things about the new DSLs and TSLs but I still like the old 800s. *I would also recommend a Boss SD-1 (MIJ prefereably) to push it. * Don't know what a Hotplate costs, I've heard around $200. *

bluenote · #11 07-10-2001, 02:21 PM

i wouldnt go out and buy a jcm 800 right away.....i dont think it will have what you want in gain.....you seem to want massive amounts of gain but with a good eq spread......the 5150 isnt all that bad, but you have to change some caps, resistors and adjust the loop to get it right....too much to go through IMO....vht may be what you want, but be carefull, they are too scooped for me....and kinda generic sounding....of course, i suggest egnater(pre-rocktron only)....there was one for sale on harmony central about a week or two ago.....im sure he still has it, he wanted $1400.....dont pay more than $1200.....but ive bought one for $1000.....if that is too much, maybe a modded marshall( i know of one for sale that was modded by john suhr--he designed the CAE amps) or try out a soldano hr-50...sometimes you can get one for around $500

**jemsite** · #12 07-10-2001, 02:28 PM

i am not sure the 800 will do the trick either, but it is worth listening to... these are often dirt cheap in local shops used.

Next up, you need to decide if you need an amp with more flexibility... glen

lgascoig · #13 07-10-2001, 02:29 PM

Aren't there multiple JCM 800 models? *I think there are some with a master volume and some without. *You might want to check the amp forum on Harmony Central, the JCM 800 50 watt seems to be very popular there.

rgr · #14 07-10-2001, 04:45 PM

There are some channel switching 800s, there are also master volume and non-master volume models. *I would recommend a master volume model or channel switcher. *The clean channels are nothing to write home about but the dirty channel is pretty much the same as the master volume model and most, if not all, of the channel switchers have effects loops. *No, they aren't versatile but they do have a good tone, IMO. *For cleaner sounds use a volume pedal or roll back the volume on the guitar. *

$0.02 or less,
Roger

pri0531 · #15 07-10-2001, 04:53 PM

Jem7vwh/Chris
I have both the 5150 and the Carvin Legacy and for me the Legacy get the closest to the smooth sine line response (i.e. creamy sound). *I changed tubes out several times in 5150 and liked the Eurotubes the best. *I also used a Sonic Maximizer in the effects loop. *It helped, but it was still gravelly. *You can stop by if you want to try them out side by side.
Out,
Gregory *