This Evil Bean

thetick · #1 04-26-2006, 06:14 PM

OK, I don't get it. I bouight the PodXT about two weeks ago. PLayed with it incessantly. Sounded like I was playing out of a cardboard box. I'm using an $800 guitar and $70 headphones, so it ain't that I was thinking of returning it and the guy at the local guitar center told me about this update to 3.0 and said "Dude, download the model packs." So I do this and spend the extra $100 and update the firmware, etc...play with it for two more days and it still sucks *ss.

I have to be doing something wrong here. right? Everyone else raves about these things. I mean the notes just don't decay right. The handbook talks about "power tube sag" on some models, but there is no mid range squishiness, no sustain - I can't dial it in anywhere. I have been twiddling knobs for hours. The only models that sound somewhat convincing are the Conford and the Orange in the new update. And just, just barely. Even the CRiminal/5150 model is almost OK, but it's so hi end buzzy.

I mean the only thing that sounds good on this is if I max out the distortion on the Line6 patches, turn the gain up and pretend I'm in a swedish death metal band. Then it sounds kinda OK. And I notice all the clips that guys upload about "killer tone" are basically from all these Meshuggah/Lamb of God fans. Cool stuff, but not what I'm going for, and for a product that sells itself as "hundreds of tones" in a box, it seems a bit misleading to me.

Can I return this thing with the updated firmware? Can I get my money back on these "model packs"? I feel shafted that I bought the "hype" on these things...

I'm going to try and go and rebuy all my old gear that I sold....an ADA MP-1, marshall power amp, Quadraverb and a chandler tube driver..that was an awesome set up and didn't even realize it at the time...

Tell me I shouldn't give up on this evil bean..give me the tricks of the trade..

Ant1981 · #2 04-26-2006, 06:29 PM

You've been done up the arse mate.

Nothing can ever come close to a real amp.

rgr · #3 04-26-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetick

I'm going to try and go and rebuy all my old gear that I sold....an ADA MP-1, marshall power amp, Quadraverb and a chandler tube driver..that was an awesome set up and didn't even realize it at the time...

"You don't know what ya got, 'til it's gone", Cinderella...

You should be able to return the bean to the store you bought it from, you may have to put your foot down because they will probably tell you that you are using it wrong, so you'll have to stand up to them, but in a polite, businesslike way.

As far as the model packs, you should probably contact Line6 about those, tell them, again in a polite business-like manner, that the product doesn't suit your needs and you are going to return the bean to the store you bought it from. Actually, first you should probably go back to the website that you downloaded the model pack from, I'm sure it has a user agreement that you (as we all do) just hit "I agree" on. Better check the fine print.

Good luck, I'm with you, digital just ain't there yet, I have a Pandora that I practice with, but it sounds pretty crappy to me. The sampling rates on the digital units just isn't high enough, 44.1K - 48K isn't taking enough samples to faithfully reproduce the high notes, so they sound grainy and decay funny compared to the real thing. The other thing you can try is running the outputs through a tube preamp or something to smooth out the "digital-ness".

ibanezcollector · #4 04-26-2006, 06:45 PM

I love mine and I think people dont give it time or research some of the tips and tricks.

The gain structures are different you cant just crank it. Also most people dont realize how the actual amp performs so how can you get a tone if you dont know how to do it?

The seperate EQ section really is the heart and soul of it. You need to really play with it.

I hear it countless times yet everyone is stunned when someone with patience and perserverence nails a tone. Dont give up there is tons of workable tones in there you just got to really sit down and research the original amps and play alot.

Its your choice but I nailed a few tones dead on that have fooled people with the actual amp. Its possible but if you go in thinking 5 mins of tweakinig your wrong. My Jubilee setting has countless hours of tweaking an its nearing perfection. Now I have a friend with the exact amp so I have a tone of reference. I tweak and tweak till they sound the same.

Dont give up yet.

Check this guys site out he has some tones nailed. Check his mp3 samples.
http://www.project80s.com/podclips.htm

rgr · #5 04-26-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibanezcollector

I hear it countless times yet everyone is stunned when someone with patience and perserverence nails a tone.

I like my amp, pedals, and 5 minutes to killer tone... But, if it works for you, GREAT! Seriously, different strokes for different folks, I have used rack stuff, including Rocktron digital preamps, and gotten some good tones, but I was spending more time tweaking presets than playing, so I decided that wasn't for me, YMMV. If we all liked the same things, life would be pretty boring, wait, we're all here because we like the same guitars, DOH!

thetick · #6 04-26-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibanezcollector

I love mine and I think people dont give it time or research some of the tips and tricks.

The gain structures are different you cant just crank it. Also most people dont realize how the actual amp performs so how can you get a tone if you dont know how to do it?

The seperate EQ section really is the heart and soul of it. You need to really play with it.

I hear it countless times yet everyone is stunned when someone with patience and perserverence nails a tone. Dont give up there is tons of workable tones in there you just got to really sit down and research the original amps and play alot.

Its your choice but I nailed a few tones dead on that have fooled people with the actual amp. Its possible but if you go in thinking 5 mins of tweakinig your wrong. My Jubilee setting has countless hours of tweaking an its nearing perfection. Now I have a friend with the exact amp so I have a tone of reference. I tweak and tweak till they sound the same.

Dont give up yet.

Check this guys site out he has some tones nailed. Check his mp3 samples.
http://www.project80s.com/podclips.htm

Thanks for the hints, I'll keep it a few more days and twiddle knobs. How do you turn the damn EQ on on this thing anyway? And is that pre or post EQ? Any other things you do to get at those tones? But again, it's not really the "tone" I have problems with it's the decay and sustain of the notes - it just doesn't sound natural to me - is this what everyone is talking about when they talk about "fizz" I see on all the other threads about this thing? Also, look, when you play an interval, say 4ths, the notes on a good mid-to-hi gain amp kinda "squish" if you know what I mean, a bit of springiness..but I have found the pod is really just very "flat" except for that conford and criminal/5150 models.

I don't expect to have this thing sound like a thousand killer amps, I'm pretty realistic. But it just seems more marketing hype for kids that want to sound like Deathtallicpultra than for actual guitarists who dig your basic heavy rock pallette of tones...

UPDATE: Oh, I checked those mp3 clips - and you know what, they sound pretty good, and some solid playing for sure, but it still sounds artificial to me - not so much the rhythm guitars, but the leads. The notes just don't attack/decay right. Tones are pretty good representation of I suppose the original amp setups, but still sounds boxy. And there's the hi end-y mid tone that just hangs there in the mix that's not musical at all - is that the "fizz"?

ibanezcollector · #7 04-26-2006, 06:59 PM

If you go in expecting an exact replica you mys well return it now, it is in fact a tool thats it.. An any good toolbox has more than one tool in it.

I have no problems obtaining great tones I think are extremely useable but im not a gigging musician. I love mine but I also went thru the intital im going to return this thing it sucks, but I kept at it and finally learned some tricks.

Out of all the amps I think the Conford is the worse LOL. Opinions everyone has em I guess

rgr · #8 04-26-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibanezcollector

Check this guys site out he has some tones nailed. Check his mp3 samples.
http://www.project80s.com/podclips.htm

Maybe it's because I already know they are a POD, the sounds are good, but not "alive", like there is a lack of air or something. If I heard the tones and didn't know what they were from, they wouldn't bother me at first, but I think I would get tired of listening to them after a while for some reason that I might not be able to put my finger on.

BTW, just to show how differently people hear things, of the 3 or 4 samples I listened to on that site, I thought the Money solo was the may "digital" sounding. The "digital-ness" seems to show up more in single note lines than rhythms to me.

Again, different strokes, this isn't a cut against modelers, just my opinion, and it probably sux.

kp69 · #9 04-27-2006, 01:12 PM

I actually like the old POD better. The high gain sounds on the XT sound grainy and anything but realistic. It's way more flexable than the 2.0 model. But I think they took a step backwards in the tone department. Also the noise gate on the new one is horrible.

Demiurge · #10 04-27-2006, 01:38 PM

I felt the same disappointment when I first got my XT Live. It sounded fizzy and awful, but THEN I read the manual and realized that it's necessary to set the output mode for whatever you're running it into. I usually run it direct, so I set mine on "Studio" and it went from terrible to incredible. I'm lucky I sat down with the manual before I gave up on it, because I, too, sold a bunch of my gear to buy one.

JESTER700 · #11 04-27-2006, 01:41 PM

I've heard lots of tube amp sounds that I thought sucked. And lots of modeled sounds that I thought were cool (even some old cheezy rockman noises!). So if you keep 2 things in mind (already mentioned, but I'll echo them, since I agree), you might end up liking your modeler:
1) Don't necessarily try to perfectly duplicate a particular amp. Most tube AMPS can't even do that, sometimes even from the same line. Of course, this depends on what "perfectly" means to you.
2) Spend time with it. These things ARE much complicated-er than most amps. I'd say wait play with it (and get tips & stuff off the web) until your time is almost up and you have to return it. If it hasn't grown on you yet, return it.

I thought the POD was a little fizzy too, so I went with a DG Stomp and am just now replacing it with a Tonelab. But I don't use many high gain noises, which are both of these units' weak spots.

thetick · #12 04-27-2006, 02:02 PM

Thanks for the replies guys...I'm still on the fence with this. Again, my main problem is not the tones that this the XT generates - those can be pretty cool across the board. It's the "feel" when playing it and especially single line notes/riffs/leads. Regardless of amp model, the attack/decay and sustain feel all wrong. I tried the Tonelab before and it had those things right, but the tones/models were just too mushy - I couldn't tighten up the low end no matter what I did on anything like a high gain kinda sound.

I guess between buying the thing and the model packs I've dropped $450 for something that just "dynamically" doesn't make me want to play it. I have seen that some advocate putting a tube line buffer in front of it to get it to have that responsiveness, but that's an additional $150 to drop and then it becomes what's the point.. Like most of you I am sure a good sound, whatever yours is, will make you want to play and be creative. That's what we're all ultimately aiming for. If I have to spend hours "tweaking" things to make it feel natural to play, that's time taken away from time I could be grooving and being creative with the instrument, you know? I'm impressed with the range of amp models and sounds this thing can create, but it just doesn't make me want to play it - like having a beautiful guitar that you just can't set up properly no matter what. Like I love the look and sound of a Les Paul, but can't stand playing them at all. I start playing a LP and I feel like Jimmy Page on a sake martini bender (and that's not a good thing) I need a strat or an Ibanez..so I think it's the same with the Podxt for me - doesn't get my creativity juices flowing. Creativity really comes out of working within limitations, not having a zillion options. Otherwise your spending all your time exploring X amount of possibilities instead of getting to the thing at hand...or am I getting too "out there"? Sorry, I blame all those "Alien Love Secret" columns Steve Vai wrote for guitar player back in the day..they ruined my creative porcess for life

Anyway, here are a few options I'm kicking around:

1) Keep PodXT, continue to tweak, purchase VHT valvulator in a few weeks and see if that helps.

2) Return the Podxt, get the Tonelab, and keep my Pod 2.0 handy for higher gain rhythm chunkness

3) Go get a nice Fender tube amp and maybe the Tech21 GT2 - which I tried at ye olde music store through said small Fender tube combo and it sounded pretty sweet. No effects though. 'natch.

Any other ideas?

Angelo Guitars · #13 04-27-2006, 02:14 PM

Return POD XT and look into a TECH 21 Trademark 30 or TM 60. You can always run effects of your choice in the Effects Loop.

Return POD XT and look into Behringer's V-AMP Pro.

I'd only keep POD XT if I really need all the bells and whistles. I wouldn't go through the extra hassle of putting a tube line buffer in front of the XT. You should be able to get good tones from the unit itself, along with some "deep editing" (if that's available).

bluealien · #14 04-27-2006, 02:34 PM

Man Im with you on that PodXT Effect Processor, I play one for 4 hrs, and only got one good tone I like dialed in with head phones, but still did not sound like my old Digitech 2101. Preamp & Effects, which uses tube or Solidstate.

Could not see why that unit is $800 either, it has less effect then other rack units too.

I would try to return it or get a exchange for something better, if not the sell on E V I L Bay,

gitarguy · #15 04-27-2006, 03:14 PM

If I am reading you correctly I think one on the things you are missing is the sustain that is caused by playing the guitar in a room with a real and loud amp. I was also bothered by this when I first got my POD and I found that especially while recording if instead of headphones I played in front on the monitors the sound is much more realistic. You are not going to get sustain and feedback using just headphone without some sort of sustainer.