Those who seek tone/dist/od help...please read.

[track7]

Ok i'm gonna throw something out for you all to chew over, i dont know if it is just my opinion, but it seems pretty logical to me.

There is at least 2/3 posts a month about "which dist box should i get?" etc etc Asking for the ultimate tone in a box that will re-create everything from hendrix thru mettalica. I know this cause a while back i was asking these kind of questions!

Now let me put it clear and simple , a good tone starts with a good pre-amp. Pre-amp meaning the input gain shaping (be it modelled or valve) the circuitry and the EQ. Pre-amps can come just on their own, or more commonly in every head or combo you will buy.

Now a stomp box, distortion box, overdrive unit whatever, is a pedal that boosts gain, it is not (i know there are exceptions but i'll come to that) a substitute for a pre-amp.

Now this means, that if you have a crappy sounding solid-state combo then sticking a boss ds-1 or whatever in front of it is not going to make it sound like satch, vai and co. Because you're adding gain to an already poopy sound.

Now on the other hand if you have a nicely solid state modelled or valve pre-amp thats already been shaped tonally and driving nicely (either clean or dirty) adding a box in front of this will BOOST, semi-transparently what you already have giving a nice sustain. The box is working more like a compressor than a distortion.

Now I'm not saying that you have to have an expensive valve amp + the box to get good tones, not at all. Just so long as you are happy with your basic pre-amp tone, before you start adding boxes in front of it.

I have a few setups but personally one of my cheapest, simplest and cool sounding is a sansamp GT2 providing a nice chunky warm driving pre-amp sound that is being boosted with a boss ds-1 pedal. This is a totally solid state setup that is reletivly cheap but it gives a real warm, valvey sound.

You can of course use these boxes on their own, and be perfectly happy with the results. They can come up with unique useable tones. But i feel (and is proved by the amount of people saying my ds-1 doesn't make me sound like satch) that these aren't why people buy the boxes.

The other big issue is that not one stomp box is gonna give you hendrix thru satch thru mettalica. It is unrealistic, the only way to get this versitality on a cheap logistical level is to go for some kind of modelling device, like the aforementioned Sansamp GT2 or the new digital modelling processors.

On a closing note I should say that I feel the reason so many people are un-happy with their tone is partly due to not understanding what equipment actaully does (this is partly the fault of hype, i.e "satch uses it" so u get 1 = u sound like satch) and partly expecting too much from the equipment.

I should add the obligetory "its all in the fingers" onto the end of this. And I know that it is an old cliche now but, the other day I got a lovely always with me always with you sound out of my setup I mentioned above. I picked up the guitar and played with those exact same setting yesturday and I sounded like poop.

My fingers were cold, and there were bum notes evreywhere. 30 mins later i was concentrating, and warmed up + bang there it was, that sweet tone again.

I hope that this helps people who are looking for a new tone/dist box/od box, and clears up any cofusion there might be.

Maybe when enough people have read this it could be filed in the FAQ section and when someone comes along with this kind of Q they could be pointed in this posts direction.

If anyone has any further Q's or would like anything I've said claryfying just reply or email me.

Track7
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[BucketBot]

Good job. I agree 100%.
It's like, nothing bothers me more than someone with say a Marshall JCM900, leaving it on the clean channel and using a Boss Metal Zone for the dist/preamp. Don't do that! It sounds like television static or a swarm of angry bees.

[CQ7String]

Great post.

The problem I'm at right now is getting my GSP2101 to sound remotely close to my cabinets running direct from the preamp into Cakewalk..

Not an easy task.. :-\

[bduersch]

Very nice! I'll admit that this took me a while to get when I got my new rig... I don't know why I was expecting killer tone out of a $40 DS1 when I had barely explored my Triaxis! I remember firing up the DS1 and thinking "D@#$, that's really nasty sounding. I gave up Crate gear for a a reason!"

The key for me was spending time building patches on the preamp, and then figuring out how to set the DS1 to get the best boost & sustain. But the killer tone definitely started with the preamp. If your solo tone is an 8/10, the DS1 may make it 9/10. If you solo tone is 3/10, then the DS1 will probably only make it 4/10 (or perhaps worse).

--B

[JS]

i have a marshall AVT 50. will that get me good sound out of it when i plug my effects into it?? I dont have a lot of knowledge about amps and effects, so thanks for making me understand a bit more.

[7 Dying Trees]

Yup. Good post, I totally agree. Nice

[Lonely Raven]

Sounds like the voice of experience Track7!

You also have to include that Satch (and Metallica) have some very
talented people working the mixing boards, especially while recording.
And especially Satch pats himself on the back for having tracked down a
Tube mixing board (or even just one slider from one), to Pre his
Microphone!

The sound you hear on CDs (or LPs for you old fogies), is highly processed
to SOUND like the artist wants. Or to help carve out a sonic slice of the
audio spectrum so each instrument in the band has it's own place.

Having a spot in the audio spectrum is a major part of why CDs sound the
way they do. I'm reminded of how pissed Jason of Metallica was when his
bass guitar was basically blanketed over by Jaymz's rhythem guitar!
The photo on the back of Justice for All says it all.

I also have a good Jaymz "looking for a new tone" story I could tell you
guys one night. But it would take a bit of typing...so I'll save that for when
I have more time. It's a good story with a good moral about gear.

[Two hands31]

I used to use a little Squire 10-watt amp using it's built in O/D. Sounded like crap. I bought a cheap-@$$ distortion pedal, sounded slightly better. Bought a Korg Toneworks AX-1G, much better, but because I'm mainly using the Korg for all the tone shaping, and the amp is just making it loud. Bought a Flextone II, and now I only use the (crappy) whammy setting on the AX-1G, and 99% of the time just plug straight into the Flextone. Best sounds I've ever had.

[track7]

Originally Posted by JS

i have a marshall AVT 50. will that get me good sound out of it when i plug my effects into it?? I dont have a lot of knowledge about amps and effects, so thanks for making me understand a bit more.

Hey there,

I personally dont have experience with the exact model you are talking about, however I do own a marshall vavlvestate 8080 (one of the oldest valvestate models)

The distortion on the the valvestate isn't really for me, it is perfectly useable it doesn't sound like a wet fart!, but however it just isn't real enough for me.

I dont think however putting dist boxes in front of it will help you with what you may be tring to achieve. I dont have enough technical knowledge to back this up, but I think it mightbe posibly to do with the way the vavestate circuitry is designed. When i tried it, it didn't work that well.

If you are talking about sticking chorus, delay etc in the FX loop then thats no problem at all.

I think (i'm going out on a limb here correct me if wrong), that the valvestate dist is really just a stomp box inside the amp, as apposed to a voiced modelled distortion, if this is true, it would explain a few things for me personally

Anyway hope this helps

track7

[jeff l]

Originally Posted by BucketBot

Good job. I agree 100%.
It's like, nothing bothers me more than someone with say a Marshall JCM900, leaving it on the clean channel and using a Boss Metal Zone for the dist/preamp. Don't do that! It sounds like television static or a swarm of angry bees.

Haha.....I knew a guy in Alabama who had a Lee Jackson Ampeg half stack and he'd use the overdrive from his amp in *conjuction* with a Metal Zone set to stun-gun. You wanna talk about a garbled mess!

[mike777]

I'm addicted to pedals and I STILL agree with you. AMP first!-Absolutely!-Pre and power stage. Distortion pedals are still fun to experiment with so I haven't gotten rid of any. Very few pedals in general sound so good as if they were actually a part of the amp's circuitry and others are just amazing.

A decent distortion pedal can quite easily cost as much as a nice down payment on some great amplifiers. If it's an option, I think the quest should start with the amp. I like pedals for experimentation and a little added flavor-but not as a "Band Aid".

Mike 777 Haug

[Lonely Raven]

Unless your like Satch and you find a pedal that just totally wins you over!

I've got this video interview with Satch's guitar tech, and he allows the
video interviewer to scan the amp settings really quickly, as well as the
DS-1 settings. He also mentions that Joe uses the Marshall head "in clean
mode".

Similar story. I had a friend that was absolutly in love with the DOD
American Metal pedal. It gave a wonderous Metallica sound! But only when
in conjunction with certain amps!?!?! The best he found was a cheap
practice amp called Traynor. He'd put the pedal in front of it, crank the
amp, and have the back of it a certain distance from a wall, or better yet
a corner. That would give him LOTS of tight bottom end or "whump" as
he called it.

Wonderfull sound!

Crappy for leads though.

[johank]

Very much of the tone is in the fingers.
Mattias IA Eklundh, used a Sharp Radio and a Marshall guvnor pedal, before he got sponsored by Laney.
And on This years Freak Guitar Camp, he used a really small amp called Gorilla, and a pedal called Fatal Tube! He still had great tone.

[guitarkatana]

Totally agree. I'm one of the lucky ones. I have an old but very nice squier combo. I leave it on clean mode and use a Danelecro Daddy O for the distortion, and it sounds pretty good, when I'm in the mode and warmed up. But if I had a lot more money, I'd have a rig like John Petrucci and just switch between different amps via bradshaw. I'm not too fond of dist. pedals.

[Drew]

You know, if you take a metal zone, boost the upper mids, and cut the gain ALL the way back and crank the volume, it's actually a fairly workable overdrive pedal; a little harsh on the highs with a strat, perhaps, but pretty cool into a fender tube amp. Ironically enough, after i picked up a mesa combo and stopped using the metal zone, i found out Jerry Garcia used to do this. Scary. I hate the dude's playing.

-Drew