Tone in the gear or hands?! Not Again!!

[PiSan]

I've been playing for about 1.5 years now so I'm not excellent, but I've been looking for new gear lately. I did research and spent tons of time on the internet learning about the different setups that people liked. Well today I went down to my local dealer and got to try some stuff out.

I tried an ibanez amp that didn't seem to have anything special, resembled the peavey rage that I'm trying to replace. So as I was moving on, an incredible guitarist plugged into the ibanez I was just trying. Without touching a dial he proceeded to make NICE sounds come out of that amp.

Now instead of an amp search, I'm looking for a guitar, something that I can expand my abilities with and become enough of a player to make even moderate amps sound excellent.

I used to be a firm believer that with the amount of changing string vibrations recieve before leaving a speaker, tone was extremely reliant on the gear. I've learned that the fingers have much more responsibilty for ones tone than I used to believe.

[Artist]

Cool experience.

(Mods lock this please oh dear god lock this before some zealots come in and go mental)

[.Matt.]

To some effect, gear effects tone. But what you hear can be attributed to what you're playing. If you have Eric Johnson's rig, but then you start playing metal, you are not going to sound like Eric Johnson.

[hamand]

Tone is in the feet, as long as you play with a lot of sole.













I am so sorry. :P

[The_Grindfiend]

Yeah, I don't see how I can disagree with that.

[trajectory fish]

I think it has quite a bit to do with what kind of sound you have in your head that you want to hear yourself make. Recently I've been playing an AX7221 through a little Fender Amp Can, and realy enjoying the sound I've been getting. Then again, its hard to tote my 412 and tube combo down to the park. . .

[SuperJemBoy]

Originally Posted by hamand

Tone is in the feet, as long as you play with a lot of sole.


I am so sorry. :P

LOL! That had me killing myself!

[Algiman]

Originally Posted by hamand

Tone is in the feet, as long as you play with a lot of sole.


I am so sorry. :P

People have been shot for considerably less.

[hamand]

PiSan, consider this. Steve Vai altered the physical attributes of his guitar back in the 1980s as a means of manifesting the music that he was hearing in his head. He made the cutaway so he could reach the previously hard-to-access upper notes and he routed out the wood behind the trem so he could achieve the long singing pull up style of sound.

Before I knew any of this, I bought a Jem because it had what I perceived to be the best trem available, because the sounds I hear in my head are quite smooth and psychedelic. Thankfully, this guitar allows me to achieve that melodic kind of thing.

The question I would ask is: what do you want?

What do you want to create musically on the guitar? Forget pickups, forget amps, forget anything. If you can hold and describe the sound that you want, then the expertise on this forum can direct you meaningfully to the place where you need to be. We'll offer you educated opinions on what guitar/setup you would be best off with, but you need to offer us some semblance of your motivation.

It's the same with Eddie Van Halen, inspired by the fire of Clapton and Hendrix, he built his guitar according to what he wanted to hear. What was it about the sound that this player was creating that caught your attention? I've had a very similar experience when I bought my first amp. The dude that sold it to me was SO good that I was utterly intoxicated and snapped it up (it was $30, which also helped!) but when I got it home, I discovered that it wasn't an amp at all - it was a buzzy box of nonsense. No matter what I did I couldn't get it to sing. It was the combination of his masterful touch and the music that he was playing (some Satch and Slash pieces) and the guitar/amp.

Since then, I've played through extremely expensive gear and until I got good, it still sounded bad. In my opinion, what's often overlooked in these debates about tone is that the music being played is of vital importance. It's not just fingers vs gear. Somebody on this forum very wisely said "if you played through Vai's gear and hit an open E" you would sound very much like him. I totally agree.

Steve will sound like Steve through a crummy setup too, not just because of his touch and manipulation, but because of the music that he creates, with all of his stylistic nuances. It's a fine line to draw, so I'll leave it there, since some people still confuse sound with style.

Take your time, think about it and let us know. We love to help! Even more than that, we love to argue along the way; that's what families do.

[darren wilson]

Tone is in the ears.

[Petie]

Well to get good tone out of any amp, it's a matter of really using your fingers to their fullest potential. I hope you don't consider this to be patronising, but if you're a relatively new player, chances are your fingers are still learning to simply hold down the frets so you can twang the string with the pick. Once your fingers learn to relax a little more, you will find you're able to alter the characteristics of the note in a multitude of subtle ways, all of which help to bring out your own unique sound, which can rise above and/or enhance the tonal characteristics of whatever amp you're playing through. Here are some fun things to try, which helped me understand the influence my hands have on overall tone:

*Fret a note on the B string with the very tip of your ring finger. Keep your finger exactly where it is but rotate your wrist in a circular motion for a smooth, sensitive vibrato.

*On the high E or B string, slide from somewhere around the 15th fret to the 10th, really quickly. Hold the note for three seconds, then slide really quickly in the opposite direction, towards the guitar neck. Try it again but when you play the note at the 15th fret, play it as a pinch harmonic before sliding (sounds like Vai instantly).

*Similar to the above. B string, strike the note at the 12th fret but very very quickly move up to the 15th. Hold it for 3 "vibrato's" using the circular method explained above. Then slide back down to the 12th.

*On the low E, A and D strings, pick one note per string. Use heavy palm muting on the lowest note, light palm muting on the second one, and slide into the highest with no palm muting whatsoever.

*Bar your index finger at the 10th fret of the E and B strings, then spread your hand out so your fingers reach the 10th, 12th and 14th frets. Play the pattern I've clumsily tabbed below, and explore the differences in tone when: a) only picking the first note of each string, and using hammer-ons/pull-offs for the others. b) alternating between plucking with your thumbnail and the fleshy underside of your index finger c) picking each note at the same volume d) varying the volume/intensity of your picking.

E--14--10--12-----------------------------
B----------------14--10--12---------------

You will find that with time you'll be able to get a greater number of tones out of your rig than you first thought you could. With a bit of work you can trick people into thinking you're using a wah pedal or switching pickups when you're just varying the way you pick and fret.

[Petie]

Originally Posted by hamand

Somebody on this forum very wisely said "if you played through Vai's gear and hit an open E" you would sound very much like him. I totally agree.

Yeah but when does Vai simply hit an open E? The true test would be to play one of his songs through his rig, not an arbitrary un-finessed note which he has never really done in his recorded and acknowleged work.

[Mr Orange]

Originally Posted by PiSan

I've been playing for about 1.5 years now so I'm not excellent, but I've been looking for new gear lately. I did research and spent tons of time on the internet learning about the different setups that people liked. Well today I went down to my local dealer and got to try some stuff out.
(...)
I used to be a firm believer that with the amount of changing string vibrations recieve before leaving a speaker, tone was extremely reliant on the gear. I've learned that the fingers have much more responsibilty for ones tone than I used to believe.

Well, this all boils down to one thing: experience. In the words of Mick Goodrick, "in about fifteen to tenty years, it gets a bit better".

Practice, play and have fun. Never mind the bollocks or the results. Once you've fiddled around for 10 years or so, things start to come together a bit.

Good luck.

[hamand]

Originally Posted by Petie

Yeah but when does Vai simply hit an open E? The true test would be to play one of his songs through his rig, not an arbitrary un-finessed note which he has never really done in his recorded and acknowleged work.

Well done, that's exactly my point.

[mike777]

Tone is 90% player and 10% the equipment he or she plays on or through.

If you change a piece of equipment-the difference may be noticeable but not as much as if you only changed the player behind it all. You can spend a lot of time and money trying to sound like someone else but the best you'll get is closer-but never the same.

The beauty of the tone is in the ear of the beholder.

Mike 777 Haug