Tube amp question

[no1spretty]

Sorry if this has been asked before but i read through the amp guide and didnt find anything. Im torn between two amps. Fender blues deluxe reissue 40watts and Fender blues jr. 15 watts. Would the 15 watts be loud enough to jam with a band? I'm not looking for enough volume for a gig but considering a very loud drummer, would the blues jr. keep up, or should i get the blues deluxe?

[brothersnowgone]

Like everything else in the guitar world, everyone has thier own opinion and feelings toward this. I have a 60 watt tube head and I just barely get enough volume out of it to not be annoyed at how loud my drummer is, but of course that's my opinion and some people might feel it's more than loud enough.

It also depends if you would be mic'd or not. If yes, you could probably get away with a 5 watt head with the right PA.

I would try to get a chance to play both and see what they sound like at high volumes. Who knows, maybe the 15 watt amp won't have as much volume, but you might like the way it sounds cranked compared to the 40 watt amp.

[no1spretty]

The problem is that i wont be able to try them out. I won't be mic'ed because it's just for practice. I will be mic'ed for gigs. And the drummer won't be THAT loud haha. It's just a classic rock band

[scotte_za]

I have a 20 watt Hughes and Kettner tube combo, and it has problems keeping up with a loud drummer in a normal-sized room

[Tank]

It largely depends on your band.

If you have a hard hitting drummer with a large set (and not a practice set), you could be in trouble. If he uses practice set or e-drums, your OK.
If the second guitarist or bassist have a full blown rig of doom, then you will be somewhere lost in the mix. So you really have to take care how your band plays together and try to get enough headroom to be heard.

[no1spretty]

Alright thanks guys that was all the information i needed

[Wild_Child]

Sorry to pipe in a bit late, but volume has MUCH more to do with the size/number of speakers than the wattage of your amp.

You can have a 100w tube head, but through a single 10" speaker, it's not going to be very loud. Through 4x12" speakers, it's going to be deafening.

In order to increase the volume by 3db, we need twice the power. So an 100w amp will only be around 10db louder than a 10w amp through the same speakers. 10db is generally percieved to be "twice as loud". You need to increase the wattage by 10x to achieve this.

Speakers influence volume much more efficiently. For example, an 8w amp through 100db speakers will be exactly the same volume as an 80w amp through 90db speakers.

So, your 15w amp is around 8db "quieter" than a 100w amp through the same speaker. Or around 5db quieter than my 50w Laney GH50L which through a 4x12 actually makes pictures fall off walls. Not really much difference.

[Tank]

Originally Posted by Wild_Child

Sorry to pipe in a bit late, but volume has MUCH more to do with the size/number of speakers than the wattage of your amp.

You can have a 100w tube head, but through a single 10" speaker, it's not going to be very loud. Through 4x12" speakers, it's going to be deafening.

In order to increase the volume by 3db, we need twice the power. So an 100w amp will only be around 10db louder than a 10w amp through the same speakers. 10db is generally percieved to be "twice as loud". You need to increase the wattage by 10x to achieve this.

Speakers influence volume much more efficiently. For example, an 8w amp through 100db speakers will be exactly the same volume as an 80w amp through 90db speakers.

So, your 15w amp is around 8db "quieter" than a 100w amp through the same speaker. Or around 5db quieter than my 50w Laney GH50L which through a 4x12 actually makes pictures fall off walls. Not really much difference.

That is partly correct, but it not only depends on the number of speakers and their size but also in the speaker itself.

When I was answering, I was considering the 2 amps he listet and the 15W Fender has a considerable less output speaker.

[scotte_za]

Originally Posted by Wild_Child

Sorry to pipe in a bit late, but volume has MUCH more to do with the size/number of speakers than the wattage of your amp.

You can have a 100w tube head, but through a single 10" speaker, it's not going to be very loud. Through 4x12" speakers, it's going to be deafening.

In order to increase the volume by 3db, we need twice the power. So an 100w amp will only be around 10db louder than a 10w amp through the same speakers. 10db is generally percieved to be "twice as loud". You need to increase the wattage by 10x to achieve this.

Speakers influence volume much more efficiently. For example, an 8w amp through 100db speakers will be exactly the same volume as an 80w amp through 90db speakers.

So, your 15w amp is around 8db "quieter" than a 100w amp through the same speaker. Or around 5db quieter than my 50w Laney GH50L which through a 4x12 actually makes pictures fall off walls. Not really much difference.

Interesting. I want to boost the volume of the cleans on my H&K. Do you think a 2x12, closed back cab with 12" speakers will make a difference?

[no1spretty]

Ok so now i'm confused. The blues deluxe is 40 watts and has a: 12" Special Design EminenceŽ 8 ohm, 50 watt Speaker, p/n 0994812002.
The blues jr is 15 watts and has a: 12" FenderŽ Special Design 8 ohm, 50 watt Speaker, p/n 0994812002 (directly from site. I'm guessing the same speaker?). So the 15-watt blues jr shouldnt be that much lower than the 40-watt blues deluxe? somewhere around 4dbs lower?

[Wild_Child]

Originally Posted by scotte_za

Interesting. I want to boost the volume of the cleans on my H&K. Do you think a 2x12, closed back cab with 12" speakers will make a difference?

That depends on what you're using currently. The basic principle is that the more speaker area there is, the more air can be pushed so the louder you can go.

However, it depends on the characteristics of the speaker you're using as well. Treble frequencies tend to stand out more so a 'brighter' sound can be percieved as louder. That's why you often find bass amps are much higher wattage than guitar amps to achieve the same volume.

But yes, increasing the number or size of the speakers is always going to increase volume.

Originally Posted by no1spretty

Ok so now i'm confused. The blues deluxe is 40 watts and has a: 12" Special Design EminenceŽ 8 ohm, 50 watt Speaker, p/n 0994812002.
The blues jr is 15 watts and has a: 12" FenderŽ Special Design 8 ohm, 50 watt Speaker, p/n 0994812002 (directly from site. I'm guessing the same speaker?). So the 15-watt blues jr shouldnt be that much lower than the 40-watt blues deluxe? somewhere around 4dbs lower?

That is correct, there isn't a great deal of difference between the two amps in terms of volume. The main difference is the blues jr will breakup sooner when you start to push it harder, whereas the deluxe will stay cleaner at slightly louder volumes. To be honest, if it's between the two I'd go with whichever one you prefer the sound of since the difference in volume is pretty insignificant.

[no1spretty]

thank you. Since volume is not an issue now, i think im going for the blues jr

[scotte_za]

Originally Posted by Wild_Child

That's why you often find bass amps are much higher wattage than guitar amps to achieve the same volume.

I always wondered about that

[Tank]

Well that is only the half truth.

To get to the same volume than the 40W amp the 15W amp will go into more tube saturation, seriously altering the tone.
Which means, that both amps will sound extremely different at the same volume, since the JR has lot less headroom.

[no1spretty]

That is actually why i wanted the blues jr. the first place. Tone gets dirty at a lower volume