Upping the volume for soloing in live situations.

[beyblade]

Doing this well has eluded me all of my guitar playing life. After a 15 year break, I'm back playing in bands and I still can't get it right. Maybe I'm approaching this with blinkers on and was hoping you guys can chime in with suggestions.

I play hard rock though my soloing style is more neo-classical. To best describe my tone, think Satriani's Summer Song. I set my effects (distortion, delay, reverb, and sometimes a little chorus/flanger) in line with the amp to get my rhythm sound through the clean channel of my amp. My lead tone effects settings are the same as my rhythm tone settings. If I switch channels to the "lead" channel (obviously set louder than the clean channel), my sound turns to mush and the amp turns into a squeeling pig because here I have all these effects feeding into a overdriven channel which is what the lead channel effectively is. Even when the drive gain for the channel is set low.

Currently, I'm using a Vamp2 for effects but when I was using stompboxes, the result was the same. I've owned Fender, Marshall, Boogie and Peavey dual channel (clean and lead) amps and it doesn't matter which amp I use, the result is still the same. I've even tried setting up a low level rhythm patch on the Vamp2 and higher level patch for soloing. Works well at rehearsals but doesn't work well on stage. With every amp I've owned, I've experimented with the effects loop and have never had any success with them.

Now I'm thinking, the ideal solution would be to get an amp that has 2 clean channels, set one louder than the other and just switch between them. I've done some research and come up with zip. Can't find anyone that builds an amp with 2 switchable clean channels. Another potential solution is to use 2 amps, each set to clean and use a line selector to switch between them but I just don't want to lug 2 amps around.

What do you guys think is the solution and how do you get an appreciable boost in volume on stage and still preserve your lead tone?

[bduersch]

If you want a volume boost for soloing, here are a couple alternatives...

1) Look into some of the Mesa amps (Recto, Nomad) that have a solo boost. That boost happens in the power amp (instead of the preamp), so you get higher output instead of additional gain.

2) Consider using an FX unit in the FX loop on your amp. That's how I get my solo boost now... I use a G-Major, and boost the output level on my solo patches by 5db, which is typically enough to cut through the mix.

3) Finally, don't give up hope on finding amps with multiple clean channels. I think the Mesa Lonestar is one current amp that can dish up multiple clean tones. The relatively low gain structure of the Mesa Hartbreaker may also be appropriate for dualing clean channels.

(Sorry for all the Mesa references, but I played Mesa gear exclusively for the past 5 years, so I know more about their product line than anyone else's.)

--B

[scoden]

Heres what i would try

Use your guitar volume knob to control how much gain you are getting....set your levels so that wide open is your lead sound..back it down a touch and you should (depending on pickups/amp) have a very decent "cleaner" sound for chording.

A volume pedal can be used in front of your amp as well...One thing I learned is that when you have a particular problem with your rig or sound..the simplest solution is best.

Scott

[Petie]

For volume boost on a distorted amp I would not use a volume pedal in front of the amp as it would only really affect the amount of gain. Get one with the ability to set a minimum volume, pop it in the effects loop, use the 'heel down' position as the volume setting for rhythm, and 'toe down' as lead.

[pawel]

What about one of those very clean booster pedals like this:

http://www.fulltone.com/FB.asp

Or this:

http://www.prosoundcommunications.co...ter/index.html

These are in the more boutique pedal category, but maybe there are cheaper equivalents of these...

[Jammy]

Im currently working on a passive pedal which will allow a simple solo boost on most amps - drop me an email if you're interested, perhaps you could be my first customer
Andy

[BeastofLove]

As Pawel suggested the RC Booster by Xotic my work for you.
I own and use an RC Booster and it is perfect for solo volume boosts. Not just volume, but you can also EQ the treb and bass so that you have the right amount of 'fullness' and / or 'cut' in a band context for your stand-out moments.

-Ben

[Xavier 7]

How about an equalizer?

[kennydoe]

That little yellow BOSS pedal works good. Super Overdrive I think it's called.
~K

[beyblade]

Thanks to all you guys for replying with your solutions and ideas.

I've been down the graphic/OD pedal route before but it doesn't work for me because it colors the tone too much. Like I said, MY RHYTHM SOUND + MORE VOLUME = MY LEAD SOUND. Also, rolling back the guitars volume knob colors the sound too much.

I've also been down the boost pedal track before and all it did was to overload the input and the sound would turn to mush and the amp would squeal like a pig. But your posts got me thinking. If the boost pedal was closest to the amp, what I'd need to do is turn all the levels of the effects in the chain right down (probably where the sum of the output signal is lower than the output you'd get if only the guitar was connected to the amp), then hit the boost. Now that's a cost effective idea worth pursuing.

Brent, you are a gigging guitarist so I feel as though you know where I am coming from. It's easy to perfect your tone in your bedroom/home studio, take it to rehearsals and it needs a bit of tweaking. Take it out on a big open stage and all the rules, settings and levels go out the window. Standing infront of the amp, everything is fine but step 2 paces to the left or right and you can hardly hear yourself over someone else.

I'm not sure how many dB boost is required from rhythm sound to a lead sound but what I imagine I need is a 100w amp instantly going from a volume of 2 to 4. AFter reading Petie's post, perhaps I've diagnosed my own problem, I've been setting my rhythm volume way too high so when I select an even higher lead volume from a pedal, it sends too high an input signal and the amp just doesn't like it.

The solution it seems is not what pedal to use, but how you use it?

[bduersch]

Here's the trick...

Any boost (whether it be distortion pedal, overdrive, clean boost, EQ, etc) in front of a tube preamp (assuming that's what you're using) will have more effect on your gain structure and overall tonality than it will on your overall output level. A boost there will slam the preamp tubes harder, generating more distortion. (The Sparkle Drive generates a massive clean boost, but when plugged into the front of the amp just creates more distortion/sustain)

Any boost after the preamp (in the FX loop, before the power amp) will have a bigger impact on your overall output level. A boost there will slam the power tubes harder, possibly generating a little power tube distortion, but mostly giving you a volume boost. (That's why I can get a great boost using my G-Major--it's in the FX loop. Technically I'm only getting a 5db boost when I go to solo, but that's been enough for me so far)

Now, if you want to use a pedal, the trick is... not all of them work that great in an FX loop. Most are designed to work with instrument level, not line level. So it may take a little experimentation to get right, but I'm sure you'll figure it out and it'll be worth the time/effort spent.

--B

[ScottB]

I agree with Brent. That's why I use a MXR EQ pedal in the effects loop for my lead boost. As long as all of the faders are set straight across, I can't detect a difference in my overall tone, just an increase in volume. +3 to 5 dB is enough for me.

[frankfalbo]

If you got an old Fender Bandmaster, Showman, or Bassman 100, it would stay clean regardless of volume. Just be sure not to overdrive the input stage with the V-amp signal. They all have two channels. Then you could use an ordinary A/B switch to switch between the two channels. You could set them wherever you wanted and you'd have a nice clean signal on each. I personally don't use the A/B trick, but I have always used late '60's Fender heads as my "power amp" for a fat, vintage flavor to whatever sounds I create with my rack preamps and effects.

Otherwise there're two concepts of solo boosts, as have been discussed. The first is boosting the gain/overdrive. That's where everyone's telling you to get the overdrive or booster pedals. Then there's the "I should be louder so everyone can hear my solos" boost. That comes in the effects loop. Both Brent and ScreamJem are right on.

If you use a booster pedal between the V-amp and the amp input, that could do the trick, but remember even the amp's clean channel is subject to compression and overdrive. So you might find yourself setting the V-amp so low that your signal to noise ratio is unfortunately low for the rhythm sound.

[nick1]

You should check out the Seymour Duncan Pickup booster
http://www.seymourduncan.com/website...ctsdescr.shtml

it doesnt color the tone at all, and although it says it makes single coils sound like humbuckers, and it does, but its just a clean volume boost. I put mine in the effects loop of my amp and kept it at 1 and it was more than enough boost!!!!

[mike777]

I like Petie's response best - especially if you all want the volume to change and not so much the tone or distortion: use a volume pedal pressed all the way down in the effects loop of the amp. Set your amps volume at the loudest setting you would use it and then just rock the pedal back to your regular setting. When it's time for a little more, just press down on the pedal again. If you use a pedal that has a minimum volume control, this is a good "safety device" so that you don't accidentally drop the volume down with the pedal more than you have intended to.

Mike 777 Haug