wah is wrong with my wah?

lwi · #1 01-31-2001, 01:26 PM

I own a Vox wah, I have owned it for years, but I never really used it. *Why? *Its sounds good for clean stuff (and porn-like-music

), but as soon as I use distortion, the wah effect almost vanishes.. the dynamic range is severely reduced and is barely audible on high notes.

Is this a common problem with wha's (with a common solution), or just the Vox? *Should I run to the store and get a Bad Horsie?

I've seen a few pages that suggest modifications to the Vox.. anybody here has any experience with those?

Lwi

bob oakman · #2 01-31-2001, 01:50 PM

I own a Bad Horsie… Same problem.

I think it’s because it is pre-distortion in the chain. I cannot avoid that because I use the pre-amp gain on my Legacy/Marshall for distortion and putting the wha in the fx loop is bad. Line level would be too much gain for the wha. Distortion adds a lot of compression and strong mid tone. Its kind of like the properties of overdriven tubes compensates for the frequency changes executed by a wha pedal and minimizes the effect by pushing the varying mid tones of a wha back in the mix. The more gain you use the bigger the problem is.

I think that is the reason the wha on a POD is so expressive.

If you are using a distortion pedal for gain with clean amp setting, try putting the wha after the distortion in the chain. You should notice a dramatic difference.

I still would like to see a Wha pedal designed to insert into an fx loop.

rgr · #3 01-31-2001, 02:02 PM

What Bob said, I use my Vox before my DS-1 and don't have much problem though, maybe I need more gain

To answer your question about mods, you definitely want to put true bypass in your wah! *When you have your wah disengaged it is still bleeding off some of the signal, the "old type" wahs, Vox's, Crybaby's, etc... aren't buffered and don't have true bypass. *You really can notice a difference if you pull the wah out of the chain, clearer highs and a better signal, which is what a true bypass does for you.

The BH wahs are buffered so they don't load down the signal. *

Roger

lwi · #4 01-31-2001, 03:07 PM

Yes, I know about the true bypass mod.. it's definitly on my 'to do' list.

As for the effects chain, I don't have much flexibility since my setup simply 'guitar > [wah >] > Rocktron Voodu Valve > Amp > Cab...

Maybe I should try the wah on the voodu... but I always leave my pedals where my band practices. * And the DMC ground control is jittery when I use CC (continuous control) expression pedals...

Take a look at this:

http://www.green-fuz.freeserve.co.uk/wah.html

the mods sound simple enough... and they could do the trick, especially the first one.

rgr · #5 01-31-2001, 03:18 PM

Thanks for the links, some new stuff to try.

I used to have a VV, great unit, I never tried the wahs though. *I've never heard good things about any digital wahs, I definitely think it is best done analog. *

ryan · #6 01-31-2001, 04:38 PM

Well... I dunno the whos or the whys, but Bob nailed it - the wha on my Pod is the #1 reason why I can't stop using it...

I'd love to ditch the models (amp models that is. *If somebody has a tip on the Line 6 Cindy Crawford Modeler mentioned in another thread, please lemme know...) and go with 100% tube 5150, but there is NO OTHER wha that sound like the pedal on my Floorboard...

goldboy · #7 01-31-2001, 09:12 PM

I too have a P.O.D....actually the Flextone II XL, and I also use pure tube ala Boogie...and I found a wah with great dynamics that cuts through both the midrange and accentuates a little more high end when driven through the dirty channels...

I own the Crybaby GCQ-95 (the adjustable wah) I had the morley bad horsie.. but didn't like it's 'range' I liked it better on the Dunlop.

warmregards · #8 01-31-2001, 11:30 PM

A wah operates by cutting/boosting lows and highs...therefore it only colors the mids...play too high or too low, and either the note will not seem to be effected, or the whole thing will go on and off....some of it has to do with skill as well...foot control is need to find the range most effective for the notes you're playing, as well as knowing when to do full sweeps with the pedal. *To me, the Bad Horsie is kind of a weak wah, but it definately works, and is very, very clean. *It is my choice for wah and it is definately staying in my chain.

oooo · #9 02-01-2001, 12:46 AM

I agree with warmregards about the bad horsie being weak. *I love the ability to just step on it though, so its not going anywhere. *I use a VHT pitbull... its all tube, and I set it with tons of pre-amp gain. *I find that if I use the wah and stay away from the "all the way forward" position (this is hard, there seems to be a sweet spot) it suddenly jumps out at me. *It took a while to get used to, but now I dont even think about it. *Also I find if I back off on the guitar volume knob just a little when using it, this REALLY brings it out.

(Edited by oooo at 11:46 pm on Jan. 31, 2001)

littlegreenman · #10 02-01-2001, 02:03 AM

I don't know how the Vox wah works or the Bad Horsey (I don't have either one) but I've got an old Morley that was a distortion/wah pedal. *The wah is light sensitive (?) *it has 4 little "eyes" in the pedal that are covered by a piece of plastic that is hooked to the pedal. *When the pedal is full up, the plastic covers the "eyes" *When it is full down they are fully exposed. * I did not have that much wah when the distortion channel was on so I pulled it apart out of boredom one day. *I thought, what if the plastic reflected more light into the eye's. *So I painted the plastic white, then I put a small piece of mirror finished stainless steel in just under the eye's facing the now white plastic ala periscope style. *Now there is way more light getting into the eyes from reflecting off the mirror finish and off the white plastic and the wah is unbelievable. *The only downside is if the lights on stage are blinding, I get feedback from hell. *But, there is a wah knob to adjust the amount of wah I get so I just turn it down until the feedback stops. *It really is an amazing wah. *Now the only downside is, my adapter is broken so I can only use batteries (2 9 volt batts) and I can't find an adapter that fits the damn thing anywhere. *It has a funny size jack and needs a 14 volt adapter (I guess there is a regulator for the 2 batterie's that brings it down to 14 volts) *and it is a battery hungry unit. *Oh well, until I get a bad horsey I'll make due with it, actually, even after I get a bad horsey I'll still keep it. *:biggrin:
Jeremy

jeff l · #11 02-01-2001, 10:38 AM

I've found the B.H. to be my favorite wah to use with a distorted tone. I get plenty of flex with it but I may not be running as much gain as some of you. I've tried my Dunlop original with distortion and it just craps out. I prefer the Dunlop for clean wah, though.

lwi · #12 02-01-2001, 12:14 PM

hey ppl.. i just found another lil' thingie for those who have wah problems like me...

Quote:

"Wah" range noticeably decreased when certain effects used AFTER the wah.

The input impedance of the effect is loading down the output of the wah, as the input impedance of the next effect appears effectively in parallel with the collector resistor of Q1. This directly cuts the gain, which we've seen is responsible for the variable-capacitance effect that gives the wah its variable-frequency sound. The solution is pretty simple - buffer either the input of the following effect or the output of the wah.

(source page)
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folder...d.htm#problems

Im no electronics wiz, but my brother and father are, so maybe they know how to 'buffer' the output of the wah. *(I have no idea what 'buffer' means in this context)

rock on

Lwi

bob oakman · #13 02-01-2001, 01:51 PM

Wha did that say? :biggrin:

Actually, I don’t think I’d want to buffer anything in my chain. I have enough trouble getting gain the way it is.

rgr · #14 02-01-2001, 02:48 PM

You actually want to buffer the signal when it comes into the wah by raising the input impedance and lowering the output impedance. *Done right, it won't reduce your gain, it will actually provide a hotter signal through the chain.

lwi · #15 02-01-2001, 04:23 PM

As I understand it, the following mod does just that:
(taken from the first link I posted)..

Quote:

2. Replace the 470 ohm resistor at the emitter of Q1 with a 100 - 270 ohm resistor. This increases gain, which is useful if you've converted to true bypass. Too low a value here may introduce some distortion.

ahh.. maybe the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train after all..