Crucial for processing guitar parts (?)

Vai the god of Sound · #1 08-27-2003, 09:03 AM

Can anyone give me some major important things about processing a lead/rhythm part after recording, for example EQ settings, compression, how loud in the mix..etc

thanks in advanced

Drew · #2 08-27-2003, 05:18 PM

well, I just wrote you a book on this, then got an "invalid session" message when I tried to post it, and hit back and it was gone. so here's the short version:

EQ: since in an instrumental guitar recording the guitar's the main focus, you want to keep it as uncolored as possible. Try flat above 120Hz, then slope from 0dB @120Hz down to -infinity dB @80Hz, cutting everything below, to clear up the low end rubmle while leaving the basic "color" of the gutiar tone unchained. do this for both rhythm and lead tracks, but differentiate the tones to seperate better in the mix by tweaking them at your amp while you record. Remember, keep them as natural as possible in the mixing stages, and try to get the "right" tones whiel recording at the amp. (I generally go more bass and treble for the rhythm, and less bass and treble but mroe mids for the lead)

Compression: The point of this effect, barring exaggerated special effects, is to remove the transient peaks from a signal that our ears can't even really process anyway, to help it sit better in the mix. So, I eyeball the typical average dB setting (estimate where the "valley" is between the peaks), then set a compression threshold slightly above that. Then, adjust the ratio to the point where you can begin to hear the signal compressing, then back it up a bit so you can't anymore. This generally brings you to about 4:1 or so.

Volume: A/B your mix against a cD with a guitar mix you really dig. There's no hard rule hear- for instance, the Smashing Pumpkins do a very guitar-heavy mix with lower vocals and drums, while Nickelback mixes the drums, vocal, and bass pretty high, while the gutiars are comparatively further back. It's ice cream, really.

Other stuff-

Chorus: this robs gutiars of some of their "presence" in the mix. This is great with rhytnhm, and a light chorus can help a rhythm track sit back in the mix better. However, it's the exact opposite of what you want from a lead. Too much always seems to sound amateurish.

Delay: ideally, you want to keep the delay track out of the same stereo and frequency space as the lead. a multi-tap delay set to pan to one (or both, if you so choose) sides is idea, as is a low or high pass filter on the delay. This actually sonds more natural, anwyay" in the real world, certian frequencies are usually absorbed as the signal refrlects off a surface.

Pan: when in doubt, pan. I usually go 40-70% each side for rhythm tracks- i started doubling hard left and right, but a guy whose opinion on this stuff i trust infinately suggested going a little closer to the center, as it osunds more natural in the acoustic space, and saiung the outer ewdges for special effects stuff. Cool. but nothing, even snare and kick, should be absolutely dead center except the lead guitar (or vocal). Even slightly but inperceptably to one side is better than dead center.

Hope some of this helps...

-D

The Dark Wolf · #3 08-28-2003, 05:30 AM

I personally think the kick drum should ALWAYS be in the center. And for the snare, well... to pan the snare is human... to keep it center is divine.

As for hard panning rhythm tracks, Drew, right on. Keep 'em from 50-70/80% in the center. Definitely sounds more natural.

And as for effects on lead, a little stereo chorus (more for the "spread" sound, and not for the detuned, chorus-y sound) always makes the lead sound nice in my opinion (Post DLR EVH anyone?). It's like the other side of the coin to being dead center, (the other place where lead sounds good) and it helps to open up the lead sound (panned hard left/right mind you.) The same could be said with a nice stereo delay or reverb, but that, I think is more open for experimentation. Up to the individual I suppose. I like a nice fat analog mono delay right up the middle, I like it panned, I like pong delays, I like stereo spreads... they all can work right for lead, depending on the context.

JESTER700 · #4 08-28-2003, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wordwolf

I personally think the kick drum should ALWAYS be in the center. And for the snare, well... to pan the snare is human... to keep it center is divine.

As for hard panning rhythm tracks, Drew, right on. Keep 'em from 50-70/80% in the center. Definitely sounds more natural.

And as for effects on lead, a little stereo chorus (more for the "spread" sound, and not for the detuned, chorus-y sound) always makes the lead sound nice in my opinion (Post DLR EVH anyone?). It's like the other side of the coin to being dead center, (the other place where lead sounds good) and it helps to open up the lead sound (panned hard left/right mind you.) The same could be said with a nice stereo delay or reverb, but that, I think is more open for experimentation. Up to the individual I suppose. I like a nice fat analog mono delay right up the middle, I like it panned, I like pong delays, I like stereo spreads... they all can work right for lead, depending on the context.

Leads? Triple track 'em. Hey, if Randy did it...

30yroldpig · #5 08-28-2003, 10:54 AM

Why don't you just experiment on your own?

Have fun with it. The neat thing with audio is that if you understand ALL the rules, you can break em!

Drew · #6 08-28-2003, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wordwolf

I personally think the kick drum should ALWAYS be in the center. And for the snare, well... to pan the snare is human... to keep it center is divine.

Hey, when I said pan them slightly to the side, I was thinking in the neighborhood of, say, 1-3% on a digital multitrack program. You know, not dead center, but near enough so it sounds it.

Especially for the kick... It occupies a lot of the same sonic space as the bass guitar, so I usually tweak the kick SLIGHTLY to one side, then put the bass maybe 5-7% to the other, so they don't clash. I mean, ideally, you want to phrase the bassline in such a way so as to not hit the same downbeats, but sometimes, the song dictates that...

And yeah, the big rule of thumb is, try everything. Sometimes, the msot ridiculously exaggerated stereo mix, the kind of thing that is completely illogical and borderline stupid, captures the emotion of a peice better than the "accepted" way to do it. For me, I'm not ig into rap, but I've been listing to and experimenting with a bit of a hip-hop approach to production, for instrumental rock, and I kinda dig the reuslts. who knows.

-D

Vai the god of Sound · #7 08-29-2003, 12:31 AM

Well, you see, the thing is I have experimented on my own for quite some time now...I have recorded 20-30 songs/ideas experimenting on my own coming up with some pretty professional sounds, but not "professional" enough...I took some music production/engineering classes and I'm pretty smart when it comes to this stuff, but I know theres 1 or 2 things that I'm totally missing...

btw, thanks everyone for responding

The Dark Wolf · #8 08-30-2003, 06:32 AM

How about panning the kick, snare, and bass hard left, with the hi-hats, cymbals, and guitars panned hard right! Put every vocal differing fixed degees from each other, say at 15 degree intervals or so, and randomly pan the toms! Sounds like a killer mix.

Carlo · #9 08-30-2003, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wordwolf

... to pan the snare is human... to keep it center is divine.

did u get that tip from a fortune cookie

Two hands31 · #10 08-31-2003, 11:21 AM

I find drums sound best in a mix when panned as they appear with the kick and snare as a center. So, if you're looking at the drum kit, and the floor tom's on your left, pan it left. If there's a cymbal on the right, pan it right. The hat, kick, and snare should be pretty much centered though. I just love it when drummers use a bunch of their cymbals (or all) in one part of a song, just running across them all on different beats, and they're all over the stereo mix.

Drew · #11 08-31-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wordwolf

How about panning the kick, snare, and bass hard left, with the hi-hats, cymbals, and guitars panned hard right! Put every vocal differing fixed degees from each other, say at 15 degree intervals or so, and randomly pan the toms! Sounds like a killer mix.

Sure, feel free. I doubt it'd be a mix I'd want to listen to for long, but to each their own.

-D

Drew · #12 08-31-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two hands31

I find drums sound best in a mix when panned as they appear... The hat, kick, and snare should be pretty much centered though.

That's my personal feelings on the subject as well, although it's worth noting that the high hat is usually to the left of the drummer, and I believe the snare may be slightly to the right, as well- I haven't helped a drummer set up his kit in ages, but I recall it being tough to orient the snare directly over the kick...

Anyway, the only thing worse than Wordwolf's nightmare above is a completely boring stereo spread.

-D

The Dark Wolf · #13 09-02-2003, 03:42 AM

Nightmare? Why I oughtta...

So I take it you didn't like my idea? Man, I would NEVER mix a song like that, to be honest. That idea is what you'd call a BRAIN FART!

As an aside, I was listening to a Jimi Hendrix song the other day, ("Foxy Lady") and he has his main vocal panned hard right (I believe.) Odd.