Get recording tips

[Ant1981]

To get going into recording, what tips do people have for setting levels, like where should the levels be etc? I've had a play about with it, but would be great to get tips and advice from the more experienced.

I'm using a Motu Traveler which has input gain level for each input and there is an audio level/gain setting for each channel on the cuemix dsp too. How should these be set?

The production software is Cubase SX3.

Thanks guys

[Demiurge]

Best tip for setting levels when recording in a digital format would be to avoid clipping at all costs. Don't record too hot- if your tracker has virtual VU meters, keep 'em out of the red (and yellow, if you can help it) otherwise it will distort and you can't fix it. You can always raise the levels later when you're mixing.

[bduersch]

It's hard to give advice on this, because the "level" on the mixer will be dependent upon the overall volume of the instrument/amp, sensitivity of the mic, mic preamp architecture, etc. In the end it's more about what sounds right than "always put the snare drum at -3db..." But assuming you have meters you can look at to see the input levels, here are a few tips...

1) In the digital world, 0db is a limit, not a goal (I can't take credit for this... it was in an article I read but can't remember where). In the analog world, if you exceed 0db, you got subtle (nice) distortion. In the digital world, if you exceed 0db, it clips and sounds pretty nasty. So for starters, rig up your mic/amp, then pound on the guitar while bringing up the gain level. As soon as you hit 0db, back the gain off a bit (so you have a little room for a volume spike). Some people use compressors/limiters to get the signal consistently as close to 0db as possible, but it can suck a lot of the feeling out of your playing if used improperly (plus, compressors take time to react, so a really strong transient could exceed 0db before the compressor catches it). So my advice is to avoid using a compressor if possible... it's just one more thing muddying up the signal chain.

2) So, if exceeding 0db is scary, why do we want to get so close to it? Pretty much whenever you record, there will be some noise in the signal chain... it's pretty much inevitable. Assume your preamp/mixer/interface/etc. adds 5db of noise to your signal (theoretically speaking). If you record a strong instrument track that's close to 0db on the meters, you've gotten the best ratio of instrument to noise that you can ask for... as you mix the song and bring that track's level down, the level of noise will decrease along with the level of the instrument. However, if you record a weak instrument track that's at -20db on the meters, you'll have a lot more noise in the instrument to noise ratio. If you take the track's level down in the mix, you'll still have proportionately more noise than had you recorded a stronger track to begin with. But worse, if you need to bring that track's level up, the level of the background noise will come up along with the instrument level. So in the interest of keeping noise to a minimum, try to get the levels as high as possible without clipping. You always want to be sliding the mixers "down" when mixing instead of sliding them "up".

3) Finally, this isn't the most intuitive one... If you're recording guitar, particularly multiple guitar tracks, more gain on the amp does not necessarily mean a bigger recorded guitar tone. Often times, due to the nature of speakers/mics/preamps/etc additional distortion will be introduced in the signal chain. So what you hear when you're tracking in the room may be somewhat "cleaner" than actually gets laid down on tape/disk. Too much of this extra distortion buildup (esp. across multiple tracks) can really muddy up a mix. So my suggestion... for a big guitar sound, try turning the gain down on your amp a couple notches. It's counter-intuitive but makes a big difference. (Now, if you need that distortion to cover up sloppy playing, my only advice is to start practicing!)

Hope this makes sense... it's a lot of words, so if it's not clear let me know.

--B

[Ant1981]

Thanks, good advice. I think I get what your saying. Basically the higher I can get the level, the better the signal to noise ratio, more wanted signal less noise?

I've got meters on the front of the Motu, so I can see green, orange and red.

The meter level will change with the input gain trimmer and the dsp mix gain level too, but out of the two, which should be higher? Should I aim to get the input gain trim high first then go to the mixer?

[Drew]

+1 on everything bduersch said.

It's an accepted rule of thumb to, when in doubt, shoot for about -6dB peak when tracking. You'll still get a good signal-to-noise ratio without clipping. Some guys prefer to work a little hotter - -3db isn't completely undeard of - but I wouldn't go ANY hotter than that.

If youre talking about "setting levels in a mix, after I've recorded everything," then a reference mix is incredibly useful. It's simple - find a mix you like on a CD, and compare what you're doing to it every so often.

+ like 50 especially on "less gain." Forget everything about "added distortion from the recording process" - if you're any good, this should be negligable. Really, it's a question of clarity and dynamics. Distortion is essentially a form of compression, right? So a really high-gain distortion track is going to be super compressed, with squashed dynamics. It won't have the same impact in a mix as a lower gain track. And, if you decide you LIKE the squashed sound, it's easy enough to compress it after the fact in the mix. There's also the fact that gain tends to sound like white noise in a mix, if there's enough of it - a lower gain track won't sound quite as washed out when surrounded by other instruments.

I rarely run my gain much over 6 on my Nomad when tracking heavy rhythm guitars, sometimes quite a bit lower depending on the context.

Oh, and the same tone doubled up sounds nice, but two different tones - say, one bright and scooped, one middy and dark - sound massive.

[Ant1981]

So am I right in thiking you guys are talking of the actual mic input gain here?

[rgr]

You should be able to monitor it in Sonar (sorry, I haven't used it). It should have a virtual meter, that's where you want to set you signal, if it clips, you'll get nasty digital distortion, so as hot as you can get it without clipping, and allowing some room for the occasional volume spike.

[Ant1981]

So basically meter it on the software (I'm using cubase) and the front panel of the interface? I can ajust it two ways on the interface, the mic preamp input gain AND the cuemix dsp channel gain level. Not sure which one i should really be using or the comination.

[rgr]

Sorry, I meant Cubase, sorry, haven't used that either. But yeah, pay attention to both meters, you don't definitely don't want the s'ware meter clipping which will probably happen before the interface.

Experiment with the 2 gains, set the mic pre gain as high as you can without it introducing noise (or too much noise) then adjust the cuemix gain. It's a learning experience, there is no substitute for jumping in and experimenting, all you got to lose is crappy recordings.

Hope this helps, sort of,
Roger

[kennydoe]

one thing i'm learning as i record more & more is when you're ready to mix, mix DOWN, rather than UP.

Set your vocal (or lead instrument) around zero and build the rest of the track in the negative numbers.

I've found that i get a lot less distortion in the final mix when i get to the "louder" parts of the song.

~K

[Ant1981]

Cool, i guess mics need a bit more gain to be heard so i'll take the gain up high enough but making sure there is no distortion. So am i right in thinking get the gain up high to get more signal in at the first place rather than noise, THEN go to the mixer?

[Ibanut]

You want the signal as hot as you can get it without clipping. Its that simple.
Use the mic pre for the adjustment. Make sure your amp is loud enough too.
Digital clipping sounds terrible and cant be fixed in the mix. You can use a compressor/limiter to tape if you know what youre doing. Its personal preference. If the signal isnt hot enough you'll have too much of the noise floor to fight with when mixing, too hot and you get a terrible pop or click.

As far as mixing goes. start with drums and bass. This is the foundadtion of a song. Then ad guitars,keys etc and bring the VOX up last . Some people start with VOX but I dont. Remember to pan things out too. Vox and Bass in the middle everything else around it.

[S-man]

This is a good thread.

Recording as hot as possible, particularly when mic'n an amp, is almost a necessity in getting a good final mix. Excellent point.

This can be achieved by use of both the mic preamp and the software controlling your computer based hardware. I usually turn up the mic preamp as loud as possible, without excessive noise. Then make my final adjustments at the software level.

I find this is not as much of an issue when you are recording direct. For example, I record my bass guitar directly into my Line In/Mic Preamp. It's a Ibanez (of course) Soundgear with a built in preamp (gee...I hope the battery compartment doesn't catch on fire ). Level is not as big a deal. Though, I still record that pretty hot.

Or, when I lay down the drums/keyboard/samples,etc. with Reason and my midi controller or sequencer.


Using a CD with a mix "sound" you like, as a referance, is also a good idea. I find it is too easy for your ears to get adjusted to what you are mixing the more you work at it.

Then, listen to it next to something that is mixed "properly" and it sounds like crap. At least this happens to me.


The hardest thing has to be guitar tone. We work so hard to achieve our guitar tone, then record it and it sounds differant.

The advise on turning the gain down is Excellent.

I, personally find it affects my playing at first. But, I adjust. A side benefit is that you will, most likely, play cleaner.

Sometimes, It is hard to do. It just doesn't sound right when you are listening to it live... Then, listen to the play back and say... Wow that is really close.

Something that helps me, is recording with headphones on. It sounds closer to what I wind up with. Plus, it is necessary to play along with the drums and bass. Obviously, you wouldn't want those tracks to be picked up by the mic you are using to record your guitar amp. So, I turn off the studio monitors and throw on the headphones.

I don't mix with headphones on, most of the time. I have made that mistake before. I took off the head phones and turned on the studio monitors to find it sounded horrble.

Mic postion plays a big part too. I have played with postioning for hours on occasion. I wish there was a way to get it EXACTLY where it was before. I thought of taking a picture as a referance. But that's not going to work. I swear, a change in the barometric pressure affects the position of the mic (just kidding).


Listening to your mix on several different playback devices is enlightening. For example, what sounds good on your home stereo may not sound "right" on your car stereo.

One other thing...My final mix is recorded as hot as possible too. I find if I don't do that, when I burn to cd and listen, the level is too low. I then have to crank the volume on whatever I'm listening to it on. Then when I put in a store bought commercial recording from any given artist, it blows my speakers up. Well...it doesn't blow them up (most of the time) But.....I HATE when that happens.

This has been what I have expierianced. I have spent many hours trying to get a good a quality sound/mix. I am finally getting close.

Or...at least I think so.