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  #16  
Old 12-16-2012, 05:30 PM
IVsakeN  is offline
 
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


I think the modeler world has def shaken things up. With two days of my Roadster with a mic, the PODxt sure does sound close. Furthermore, I sounds pretty much the same no matter what I play through since most of it is in the fingers anyway. Nothing can replace the pure volume of the cab and the force you feel on your legs, but for some simple home recording, it seems the modelers are still winning.

I'm not going to give up, but I still can't get the dynamics out of this amp I want (or any amp really that I have tried). I haven't been in the tube world that long so I gotta keep trying.
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2012, 09:27 PM
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


What is your signal flow? Mic, preamp, interface?
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2012, 10:03 PM
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


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Originally Posted by 11racksfx View Post
What is your signal flow? Mic, preamp, interface?
Just an SM57 into a Fast Track Pro recording with Reaper. This was one I got tonight after fooling with mic placement a bit (excuse the playing, was just sound checking hehe) http://soundcloud.com/hwilliams78/roadster-test

Last edited by IVsakeN; 12-18-2012 at 01:03 AM.
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2012, 11:03 PM
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


Quote:
Originally Posted by IVsakeN View Post
Just an SM57 into a Fast Track Pro recording with Reaper. This was one I got tonight after fooling with mic placement a bit (excuse the playing, was just sound checking hehe) https://soundcloud.com/harold-williams-4/roadster-test
Nice playing and sound good. The SM57 is good all purpose mic and the Avid Fast Track Pro is a good audio interface with preamp.

First, if you not happy with the sound that your recording reproduce, try a Condenser mic. Something like a Shure Beta 87A or a Rode NT1A. A condenser mic will have greater sensitivity and more extended top end frequency response than a dynamic microphone. A better preamp doesn't hurt either.

Also, a condenser mic needs to be power, and placement on the cab needs to be between 8 to 12 inches away because of it sensitivity.
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2012, 11:07 PM
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 11racksfx View Post
Nice playing and sound good. The SM57 is good all purpose mic and the Avid Fast Track Pro is a good audio interface with preamp.

First, if you not happy with the sound that your recording reproduce, try a Condenser mic. Something like a Shure Beta 87A or a Rode NT1A. A condenser mic will have greater sensitivity and more extended top end frequency response than a dynamic microphone. A better preamp doesn't hurt either.

Also, a condenser mic needs to be power, and placement on the cab needs to be between 8 to 12 inches away because of it sensitivity.
Thanks man. I guess I just need to keep playing with it. I only had the master on about 10-11, so that might be why the sustain wasn't quite there that I wanted. Might try to up the gain and roll off the volume instead to see what I come up with there. I know the Rectos aren't singing machines but Im sure going to try haha.
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  #21  
Old 12-16-2012, 11:23 PM
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


I have a Mesa Dual Rect. head and don't really use it for the clean. I use my Carvin MTS3200 for the clean. I have been using either the Tiny Terror or Ibanez TSA15 for recording because I can really turn up the volume for the tube to saturate. I sometimes use plugins to help. Either something like Sound Toys Decapitator or a 112dB Redline Preamp plugins.

http://www.112db.com/redline/preamp/
http://www.soundtoys.com/product/Decapitator/

You can demo before you buy. This will give you better harmonic and warm to your sound.
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  #22  
Old 12-16-2012, 11:30 PM
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


Quote:
Originally Posted by IVsakeN View Post
Thanks man. I guess I just need to keep playing with it. I only had the master on about 10-11, so that might be why the sustain wasn't quite there that I wanted. Might try to up the gain and roll off the volume instead to see what I come up with there. I know the Rectos aren't singing machines but Im sure going to try haha.
My clean setting on the 3 ch. Dual Rect are Master at 1, Gain at 11, Bass at 11, Mid at 7, and Treble at 12, Solo at 7, Output at 7, Presence at 1.

Power mode Spongy, Rectifier - tube.

Closest sound to a Fender clean.
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  #23  
Old 12-16-2012, 11:47 PM
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


At least your not miking the cab like this.
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  #24  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:14 AM
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


Quote:
Originally Posted by IVsakeN View Post
Thanks man. I guess I just need to keep playing with it. I only had the master on about 10-11, so that might be why the sustain wasn't quite there that I wanted. Might try to up the gain and roll off the volume instead to see what I come up with there. I know the Rectos aren't singing machines but Im sure going to try haha.
Another suggestion I would make if you want better sustain is to add a compressor pedal in your signal chain. Using compression on a guitar will allow you to restrict its dynamic range. This will deliver a tighter, more controlled sound without as many peaks. You will also be able to turn up the overall level of the guitar without actually increasing its peak volume level. Compressing a guitar will also emphasize its sustain.
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  #25  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:21 PM
Drew  is online
 
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


Quote:
Originally Posted by IVsakeN View Post
Thanks man. I guess I just need to keep playing with it. I only had the master on about 10-11, so that might be why the sustain wasn't quite there that I wanted. Might try to up the gain and roll off the volume instead to see what I come up with there. I know the Rectos aren't singing machines but Im sure going to try haha.
Volume definitely helps a Rectifier. The Roadster isn't as bad as my old Rect-o-verb, but using a Hot Plate to knock off another 4-8 db definitely makes a difference.

That said... That clip really doesn't sound all that bad at all, even considering how Soundcloud eats audio alive. There's a bit of high end sizzle but not necessarily in a bad way, and while the lower mids are a little tubby that's about the worst I could say - maybe try using a band cut somewhere around 250-400hz, fairly broad, to take off 1-2 dB and see if that clears things up any.

As far as settings go, I think you and I are after similar sounds, and I've had a lot of luck starting somewhere around here:

Ch 3 - Vintage, 100w, solid state (I go back and forth here, but this will give you the most dynamically responsive poweramp with the clearest low end, while 50w/tube is on the other end of the spectrum where it sags a lot more and doesn't have quite the low-end clarity)
Channel Volume - 12-1 o'clock (all settings o'clock)
Presence - to taste, start around 10
Bass - below 8/all the way off
Mid - 1-2
Treble - noon
Gain - 2

Output as high as you can get away with, I'll generally run it at 10-11 o'clock with a hotplate for bedroom jamming.

The Channel volume actually has a HUGE impact on shaping the gain structure of Rectos (and, really, most Mesas) in my experience. Again, this was more pronounced on the Rectoverb I used to own than the Roadster, but I found that as the channel volume went up it got crunchier and more saturated, and as it went back it was more liquid and smoother. The midway point was a good compromise between still being quite smooth but also sending a hot enough signal to the FX loop and being a good point at which to balance all four channels.

Worth a shot. :yesway:

Also, pay attention to your tracking levels - in digital, there's so much headroom that there's really no reason at all to come anywhere near -db. I rarely peak above -12dB while recording - much higher than that and you're just turning all your tracks down anyway in the mix, and most "prosumer" gear isn't terribly linear at the very top of its available headroom.
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  #26  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:24 PM
Drew  is online
 
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 11racksfx View Post
Another suggestion I would make if you want better sustain is to add a compressor pedal in your signal chain. Using compression on a guitar will allow you to restrict its dynamic range. This will deliver a tighter, more controlled sound without as many peaks. You will also be able to turn up the overall level of the guitar without actually increasing its peak volume level. Compressing a guitar will also emphasize its sustain.
Adding a compressor to your signal chain, especially if it's pre-preamp, is as much a manner of tonal shaping as anything else, though. This is especially true if like me you like to work your pick attack a little to shape notes - you have much less control over how the amp breaks up.

That said, this is DEFINITELY true in a mix. A heavily saturated lead guitar will not benefit much from a compressor because it's already pretty well squished, but low-to-mid gain lead guitars can be fattened up a little with carefully applied compression by taking the edge off the attack. It's not night-and-day different (nor do you want it to be) but it can help a guitar sit more comfortably in a sparse, spacious mix like the first half of this one.

EDIT - rereading, by "in a mix" I mean taking a guitar recorded without a compressor in the signal chain, and applying compression to the recorded audio file.

Last edited by Drew; 12-19-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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  #27  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:24 PM
AlaskaBat  is offline
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


All the info you need right here....and then some:
http://tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
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  #28  
Old 12-20-2012, 02:49 PM
IVsakeN  is offline
 
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew View Post
Volume definitely helps a Rectifier. The Roadster isn't as bad as my old Rect-o-verb, but using a Hot Plate to knock off another 4-8 db definitely makes a difference.

That said... That clip really doesn't sound all that bad at all, even considering how Soundcloud eats audio alive. There's a bit of high end sizzle but not necessarily in a bad way, and while the lower mids are a little tubby that's about the worst I could say - maybe try using a band cut somewhere around 250-400hz, fairly broad, to take off 1-2 dB and see if that clears things up any.

As far as settings go, I think you and I are after similar sounds, and I've had a lot of luck starting somewhere around here:

Ch 3 - Vintage, 100w, solid state (I go back and forth here, but this will give you the most dynamically responsive poweramp with the clearest low end, while 50w/tube is on the other end of the spectrum where it sags a lot more and doesn't have quite the low-end clarity)
Channel Volume - 12-1 o'clock (all settings o'clock)
Presence - to taste, start around 10
Bass - below 8/all the way off
Mid - 1-2
Treble - noon
Gain - 2

Output as high as you can get away with, I'll generally run it at 10-11 o'clock with a hotplate for bedroom jamming.

The Channel volume actually has a HUGE impact on shaping the gain structure of Rectos (and, really, most Mesas) in my experience. Again, this was more pronounced on the Rectoverb I used to own than the Roadster, but I found that as the channel volume went up it got crunchier and more saturated, and as it went back it was more liquid and smoother. The midway point was a good compromise between still being quite smooth but also sending a hot enough signal to the FX loop and being a good point at which to balance all four channels.

Worth a shot. :yesway:

Also, pay attention to your tracking levels - in digital, there's so much headroom that there's really no reason at all to come anywhere near -db. I rarely peak above -12dB while recording - much higher than that and you're just turning all your tracks down anyway in the mix, and most "prosumer" gear isn't terribly linear at the very top of its available headroom.
Thank you man I'm going to play with this some more. That's another thing I wondered, cause in this situation I have the FX Loop hard bypassed off where the master was up around noon. It seems you can control the sound of the amp a bit more if you use the master and the output knob like you said, but have to put the FX loop back on to use those.
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  #29  
Old 12-20-2012, 02:50 PM
IVsakeN  is offline
 
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaBat View Post
All the info you need right here....and then some:
http://tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
Ah cool man thank you. Most def some good reading in there and I will check it out!
quote
  #30  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:11 AM
Drew  is online
 
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Re: Help a total beginner with recording?


Quote:
Originally Posted by IVsakeN View Post
Thank you man I'm going to play with this some more. That's another thing I wondered, cause in this situation I have the FX Loop hard bypassed off where the master was up around noon. It seems you can control the sound of the amp a bit more if you use the master and the output knob like you said, but have to put the FX loop back on to use those.
Yeah, definitely don't hard-bypass the FX loop. Some old-school purists will tell you a master volume is detrimental to your tone and whatnot (and, certainly, it's a shorter signal path without one), but very few purists would buy something with as many bells and whistles as a Roadster, anyway. It's DEFINITELY worth having the master volume available.

Spend some time playing with different combinations of channel and master volume, and how they interact with the gain knob - it definitely subtly reshapes the gain structure of the preamp.

Another thing to try - a lot of Recto users swear by throwing a Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1. I bought my Roadster secondhand with one already there, but my Rectoverb that it replaced was bought new, and it definitely seemed to help warm up/smooth out the tone a bit.
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