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Is the Industry Favoring Analog Again?

3K views 19 replies 8 participants last post by  ns9 
#1 ·
In many of the recent articles I've read it appears that the industry is again favoring analog consoles and outboard effects over the current PC based recording platforms.

I'm curious how the younger crowd who has never known anything other than computer recording is reacting. I'm 45 and cut my teeth on ALL analog gear and reel to reel tape multi-track machines in the '70's.

I'm not saying one is better than another, but does anyone else see the shift towards analog and will we see this going full circle?

I still want a Neve.......
 
#2 ·
I know that The Tea Party has been using analog since the start (at least, I'm pretty sure). Gives it a unique sound in today's digital world. Then again, I've been fooled by a few albums that I thought were analog, but were fully Pro Tools. So I think it won't make a huge difference, as long as it's done right. A good album is a good album, simple as that.
 
#6 ·
Vai the god of Sound said:
well, protools allows you to record like tape, it records everything you play, unlike a regular sound card that can only handle a sample rate of 44khz. Plus the bitrate is higher too...thus the quality it better. Tape does colour the sound a certain way, though I've never used it ;)
It doesn't record "everything" you play, because it still has SOME sample rate, even if it's as high as 196k/s. So the question REALLY is, what do you NEED to record? IMO, the 20k bandwidth allowed by 44.1k sampling is just FINE. I do like the 24 bit stuff, but that's another issue.
 
#7 ·
Yes, I agree Protools is the best offering for that platform, and a great example of importing an analog source and mastering would be the new Zeppelin live CD.

I guess there is merit to being able to "tune" bad notes or fix misques, but somehow it feels like the sport of capturing a great recording has been removed from the equation. It used to be quite a challenge and you actually had to have a combination of good players and engineers. Now pre-teens are churning out magnificent recordings that I highly doubt are really them at all.

Although I promote the idea that everyone should get into some aspect of music ( I was a piano major in college), It just seems like technology has lowered the bar and true artists won't experience the thrill/satisfaction of chasing and creating that elusive masterpiece- " ...hey, great cut! Don't worry about that out-of-tune part or that place where you lost the time signature - we'll just fix it in the mix...."
 
#8 ·
jemaholic said:
... but somehow it feels like the sport of capturing a great recording has been removed from the equation.
That's not decided by the fact that you are going digital or analogue. It's a question of who is behind the console.

There are some Huge records out there that have some horrible edit mistakes and lousy production. If you guys only knew how bad audio for television is delivered to us before broadcast...

Ricki Martin's 'Living La Vida Loca' was recorded, overdubbed and mixed using a DAW. It sounds pretty warm & clean to me. Your hottest film soundtrack certainly doesn't lack punch or warmth...rest assured that they weren't mixed using analog tape...

Thank economics for the eventual disapearance of tape. One reel of 2 inch 24 track tape can cost between two and five hundred dollars. That same reel of tape can hold how much music? Well roughly 15 minutes of music running at 30 IPS (inches per second) or 30 minutes at 15 IPS. Don't forget that there is about 2 minutes of Dolby SR tones on there... then you have to purchase and maintain 2 inch tape recorder(s) (can you say re-mortage your home), the long porcess of aligning the ATR's playback & record heads is also factored in the studio hourly rate.

Converters are getting better & better, hard drives & electronics cheaper and the overall audio quality is better and completed and a quicker time delay. Why would the industry want to return to tape?

To quote my hero Roger Nichols

Digital Audio Workstations have changed the face of recording and mixing forever, but the underlying principals of recording and mixing remain the same. By just listening to a finished product, you cannot tell where it was recorded or how it was mixed. It ultimately boils down to the song and the production. If modern tools can help you -- fine, but the new tools can also increase the magnitude of the disasters.
The real problem stems on behalf of the producers who want to "save" money. They'll hire anybody who owns a DAW and offers the lowest rates but has no recording booths other than the washroom, no time code capabilities, no video sync, a lousy listening environment, no real metering capabilities and worst of all no experience. It happens all too often.

Technology is not at fault. It's the people who don't know what they are doing. - we'll just fix it in the mix -
 
#9 ·
Th quality of the recordings are not in question - it's the way you get there now. Ricky Martin's dance music is so processed of course it'll sound great. I wonder how it would have sounded if it had been recorded in 1967 when Sgt. Pepper was created? (on 4 track ) Might be a poor example but I hope it gets the message across.
Look, I record with Cubase VST and Mackie currently and I don't have a 2" Studer or Ampex machine. I love this stuff and I recognize the value of the technology- and it's exciting and fun because anything can sound great. It just seems sad that you need NO talent to ascend to that rare-air place reserved for the most talented among us.
Maybe it's just me who can't accept the minimization of how important it used to be to "get it right". At 45 years old maybe I'm just turning into a crotchity old guy, but I still consider my studio hallowed ground where you try your damned best to create something to be proud of.
 
#10 ·
If it takes no talent to get to the top, why do these guys have huge budgets, the best session players, the best song writers, the best engineers, and the best producers doing there record? Livin' La Vida Loca was not done on a dell and a digi001, I promise you that.

You're looking at a different market with Ricky Martin and the Beatles. Maybe compare the Backstreet Boys to The Monkey's and you'll have a closer comparison.

By the way, when did over processed things start to sound good?
 
#16 ·
I guess my analogy of Rickki Martin on 4 tracks was too vague - point is this: considering how incredibly limited the recording industry was in 1967, and most recordings reflected those limitations, there were spectactular albums created like Sgt. Pepper which meant you had to really know your stuff. Maybe Rickki Martin would've been great in '67, but he wouldn't sound like he does today.
Other point is that now engineers are trying hard to get an "analog" sound out of their digital stuff- including me. Seems ironic.
 
#17 ·
Hi! Actually, the "Talent" plug-in was released some time ago:
http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/Talent.html

Most of the top seling acts today have used it.

Analog vs Digital. Go on about it til you are blue in the face. Here is a somewhat wacky alnalogy :

Bob, 65 years old. Used to the chocolate ice cream that Mom made, from scratch. Eaten it all his life. He then tries some "mass-made" choco. Ewww.
Todd, 10 years old. Never had home made ice cream in his life. Used to eating mass made ice cream. He tries some of Bob's mom's home made- ewww.

Who is better- the Stones or the Beatles- after all, the Stones are still here, and the Beatles are almost all gone now. Hmmm- guess the Stones are better...

Gee...maybe it comes down to taste?

Next- most of the "Pro Tools Wonder Recordings" being referred to: These are possibly recorded into PT, but each individual track is sent out discretely to a desk (Neve, SSL, etc) and then the summing is done there. Supposedly, this is to blend in that "analog flavor," and tries to keep the analog people happy. You can find oodles of articles written on why this is "best," and asking 100 people their opinions on 100 songs recorded and mixed over 100 different formats and techniques used will result in widely varying opinion.

Add this into it all: http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
The "Awesome DAW Sum" section is a decent place to start the "enlightenment process." Alot fo the people on that forum are very accomplished engineers/producers.

On top of all of this, is economics. Recording studios in general have seen some hard times. The record industry in general is prime target in many discussions as to why this is happening. With the advent of affordable recording solutions for the amateur musician/recordist, a huge number of people are able to record at home now. Does the dream of being able to get into a "major recording studio to do it right" exist in the same percentage of musician's minds as 10-15 years ago? Hmmm. So the studios need SOMETHING for a reason to use them instead of "doing it yourself." Hmmm....experience? nah. Wisdom from years of working with people? nah. I know!!! Let's force everyone to think analog is better, no matter what!!! Average person could NEVER afford this equipment, so let's tell them the EQUIPMENT is better, and that they should come here just for that!!! People do not want to waste time thinking for themselves. So, let's just believe what they are saying, and spend the extra time and energy saved on thinking about all that for something else.

BTW- compare the $$$ spent on "top of the line" analog gear to a "full-blown Pro Tools system. People complain about the cost of a top-flight Pro Tools system- kinda funny after comparing the two that someone would even THINK of complaining, huh?

Most music produced today for the common, POPULAR market (pop, top 40, hip-hop, rap) will be listened to on formats that are technically horrible: mp3, CD. Uh oh- I hear grumbling. Yeah, you are used to it. The younger the audience, the less likely they are to even understand WHY they should complain. I grew up on phono and reel-to-reel. The cassette to me was great convenience, but sounded awful. CD offered greater overall clarity than phono, but nowhere near as "warm." (uh oh- opinions again...) Thus, the final product of any recording will inevitably end up on some form of digital media, and a technologically limited one at that. If the "flavoring" added to the recording is done prior to mastering, does it matter if it comes from real tape or a digital plug-in emulating that "sound?"

To me (opinion), the phrase "Analog is back" is simply a catch phrase (gee- dont we love them? ;) ) being used to try to convince a digital generation that they are missing out on something, much like Bob tried to show Todd what he was missing out on. I have spent time listening to stuff off mp3.com and similar places. To me, alot of it is horrible. People with enough cash to grab a computer and some software, and try to engineer/mix/record/produce/master their own material. Add the proliferation of "loops" into the pit, and now we have a new building being constructed by neighborhood kids from the scraps of a bunch of other buildings. Much like you hear "bitch" or "ass" on TV today, people are used to it, so it becomes part of everyday, public speech. People are numb to it all.

It is all a viscious circle. Studio "A" sees N'Stink coming down the road, with Warmer Borthers carrying them. "A" can charge an arm and a leg, cause the WB guys are "paying." The gear "A" uses is expensive (because "A" uses it). WB then charges way more than they should for the final product. Joe Schmoe wants the CD, but there are 10 others he wants also. Well, lets just hit kazzam and dl it for free. WB screams bloody murder. Joe Schmoe then decides to buy a new app, "LSD," which allows him to grab loops and make his own version of N'Stink. "A" turns around and says- uh- wait!!! You cant do that! You have to come here to have it sound good. Which brings us right back to the topic (yesh, really). Joe's recording doesn't need analog. It needs some talent, and some people with experience, wisdom, and some focus to enable that vision to get into some form that can be duplicated and offered for public consumption.

If Mozart were around today, and used synths to compose instead of a real piano (he is on the road, hard to lug that baby grand into the Ramada), would his music have less impact? Would he then "suck?"

Back to the analogy with Todd and Bob. Let's see what happens when Todd makes HIS own homemade ice cream. You wanna try it? Doesn't matter if he uses analog or digital. Give Bob's Mom new equipment to make her homemade ice cream. Let her make two batches. Which tastes better? Uh oh- you mean to tell me that SOME people like the original batch, and SOME people like the new way she makes it? Gee - imagine that. It actually comes down to personal taste. Take that a step further. You have now had a chance to try both, and prefer the original a little more. Will that stop you from eating the new kind if the original isnt available at that moment you crave some of Boib's Mom's ice cream? Shoot your own nose off to spite your face...I'll keep my nose so I can smell the wagon of $hite being offered as the latest snake oil to cure what ails me.

BTW- I just wrote this using digital equipment, with an analog front-end. If you would like an all-analog version, you can send me $100 and I will "warm it up" by re-writing it using analog equipment only. I suggest that you do this- it reads much better that way.

Sorry for the length and the lack of cohesiveness (and spelling, punctuation, and grammatical errors). My analog proof-reader is sleeping...and I assembled it from stuff I found elsewhere... Nikki :D
 
#20 ·
Hi! Wow- thx :D Was hesitant to write what I felt.

I have seen alot in my travels, but I do not think I will ever be at the level I would like to be as a musician, recorder, producer, mixer, etc. Then again, does anyone attain that level???

When I was younger, as a musician, I wanted a "record deal." Funny thing is, over time I found what I was searching for was not so much a way to become famous and get millions to listen to what I "heard in my head," but rather I simply wanted to have the ability to get the stuff out of my head and onto tape, vinyl, etc. After reading about people like Buddy Holly, seeing what Steve Vai did with Flex-able, and the others out there who have done the same thing, I realized I at least had a chance of accomplishing my real dream. I put time into "street learning" as much as I could: FOH live, lighting, playing any chance I got, and ??? forbid someone lets me loose in a studio! I am and always will be curious, and will forever be the wide-eyed child, enamored with what any "device" can do. To hear something in my head, and then find there are so many ways to attempt to recreate this!

So I guess for me, I liken it to this: I am like Charlie; I got a golden ticket (life). And recording equipment is my "Willy Wonka." I am not so much concerned over it being an Oompa-Loompa mixing the chocolate by hand, or the churning of a chocolate waterfall, or a machine spinning, to make a certain flavor. It is when I have an idea of the flavor I am looking for, and with some experimentation, Willy churns it out. Mmmmm. Makes the sun rise.

I loved my Corvette. Was a 2000 coupe 6-speed. Awesome piece of modern machinery. Then I got time to sit in, and then drive, a '71 Cuda. Whoa. Good old fashioned muscle, I can "FEEL" the life in it. Close my eyes. Mmmm. Each is different. Neither is better. Both got me off. Sit back at night and smile, cause I live in a time I can experience both.

Here is a great one I just thought of! Microwaves. I CANNOT stand what they do to most foods people will put in them simply due to the convenience they provide. My brother will use it for most anything. Drives me up a wall. But, after spending some time with it, I have found ways to use it in combination with a stove and an oven. Oh wait- stove?!?!? Oven?!?! Screw that- bar-b-q!!! Literally, comes down to taste :D

Luckily- to me- a good analog front-end for a DAW allows me convenience, while retaining enough of that "old-school" to keep me happy. I have tube amps/preamps, and solid state amps/preamps (for guitar). Where one gave me 256 colors, and the other 256 colors, with both, now I have 16 million. And I love "painting."

WHich brings us to: Art today. I have a vision in my head. I colaborate with other, like-minded people. The vision expands. Takes on life. Due to our musical abilities, thru years of learning, honing, etc, we are able to more closely express what we feel. Now take your modern day "creation." Let's call her April Lalame. Let's be sure to give her a "punkish, take no spit, etc" attitude. People seem to like "this." People seem to like "that." Let's combine a little of this and that, and have her perform it. Did she spend years honing a craft to be able to express an idea or vision from within herself? Nope. It is a piece of "art" created with the specific intention of appealing to a mass audience, with the SOLE intention of creating positive revenue for the "creators." Her gain is actually secondary to the goal. And her true feelings and ideas have no place in this. Or that.

Now- take what I have written here in this thread alone. I seem pretty passionate about what I have written- right? If I were to actually get up and spout like this in front of people, given my love of music, I would probably be able to express that emotion, and probably would have a natural rhythmn to it. Now, let's stick a lopped piece of some 70's song under it. Hmmm- how about accenting it with a little fill from an 80's song. And if some piece of what I am saying does not fit with the beat, screw it- I'll just cram it in there, and call it "freeform improv."

Guess I am off track, babbling and all. See what happens when I get going? Shutting up now. I think I got most of it out of my system. Guess to me it is: I like technology, and blending all the genrations of it. And I love to hear expressions of what others feel. Today, for me, there are just too many snakes slithering around wearing fuzzy bunny costumes, just so that more people will like them. Snakes can be scary. But at least when they are undisguised, we can enjoy them for that little bit of fear and horror they provide. Nikki :D

This post has been brought to you by the letters Q and A, and the number 9. Unfasten your seatbelt, and please disembark to your right. Or left. Or stay for another trip. I don't care. I'm off to explore the rest of the amusement park...
 
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