Large Diaphragm Condenser for Electric Guitar

jay ratkowski · #1 02-28-2010, 01:42 AM

Not a question, but a statement. Do this. I am soooo tired of reading books, threads, articles, etc, saying that to record electric guitar you need to use an SM-57. I think that is a terrible option personally. Live, maybe. Studio, no. For all you folks out there just starting out in recording, buy a condenser and a decent preamp. Save up for it, it is worth it.

Anyone else a fan of this setup? Any other bold statements contrary to the SM57 route?

theapprentice · #2 02-28-2010, 03:13 AM

While the SM57 is the most popular mic for guitar cabinets, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best or only way to do it. However, I'm not really very confident with the condenser mic route due to the SPL levels involved when micing amplifiers. The majority of people believe that the best sound comes out of tube amplifiers turned up really loud, and so to be able to capture that kind of sound without getting "blown"-sounding results, you'll need dynamic mics.

rty13ibz98 · #3 02-28-2010, 04:42 AM

LDC's are fine, but if you really want an awesome guitar tone, get a nice ribbon mic like the cascade fathead and a neve clone preamp like the GAP pre-73. for a KILLER guitar tone. way more 3D than an sm57.

rich

**jemaholic** · #4 02-28-2010, 01:43 PM

The trick with a condenser mic is to keep the volume low when recording an amp. The SM57 is able to handle high sound pressures, but you'll blow the diaphram in a condenser if you try recording at high volume. Many of your favorite rock albums with huge guitar sounds were recorded with small amps at low volume.

MacMusica · #5 02-28-2010, 02:05 PM

I'd go with AKG C3000 which has -10db pad and bass roll-off switches. It can handle extremely high SPLs. This is a mic without any colour. Many guitarists like alot of bass in their sound but it needs taken off in the mix as to shelve it not to disturb the Bass gtr.
You may even try the preamp DI outs to comprare/mix with the speaker. Using a DI box you can even take the speaker output load directly instead - even on a valve amp if the DI provides this function. For rhythm playing it maybe best to record without a speaker anyway.

rty13ibz98 · #6 02-28-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacMusica

I'd go with AKG C3000 which has -10db pad and bass roll-off switches. It can handle extremely high SPLs. This is a mic without any colour. Many guitarists like alot of bass in their sound but it needs taken off in the mix as to shelve it not to disturb the Bass gtr.
You may even try the preamp DI outs to comprare/mix with the speaker. Using a DI box you can even take the speaker output load directly instead - even on a valve amp if the DI provides this function. For rhythm playing it maybe best to record without a speaker anyway.

sorry, not a fan of the c3000. had one, sounds yucky. there are alot of better mics for less money.

LDC for EG that i'd recommend:
mxl v67g or oktava mk319.
still would rather use a ribbon over any condenser on a cab, though.

rich

DSS3 · #7 03-03-2010, 09:46 PM

Honestly, if you can't coax a good tone out of a 57, it's not the mics fault. I love that thing on guitars, and it makes it's way into virtually all of my tones.

The Audix i5 is also another solid option; a bit less of a midrange emphasis and a more open top end, but can get boomy as well.

If you haven't already, I'd strongly recommend looking into the Audio Technica AE2500 dual-capsule mic, as well. Condenser + dynamic in one package, and it sounds awesome on kick drums, too!

rty13ibz98 · #8 03-03-2010, 10:29 PM

i use a ton of mics for micing guitars.
fathead, sm7b, sm57, e609, i5, mxl v67, apex 460, oktava mk319...
all run into my chameleon labs, neve clones. nice huge guitar tones, it all depends on the song/session/player.
i just got a blue baby bottle that i will try out for guitars. right now i love that mic for recording rooms and aggressive rock vocals. everyone says its mid forwardness makes it sick for EG.

rich

rty13ibz98 · #9 03-03-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSS3

Honestly, if you can't coax a good tone out of a 57, it's not the mics fault. I love that thing on guitars, and it makes it's way into virtually all of my tones.

The Audix i5 is also another solid option; a bit less of a midrange emphasis and a more open top end, but can get boomy as well.

If you haven't already, I'd strongly recommend looking into the Audio Technica AE2500 dual-capsule mic, as well. Condenser + dynamic in one package, and it sounds awesome on kick drums, too!

here's my rock kick combo:

e602
subkick
at3035

all into a sound workshop 1280b. VERY api sounding console. makes for monster kick!!!

rich

AxeHappy · #10 03-04-2010, 03:21 AM

Who the hell only uses 1 mic on a guitar cab?

The SM-57 is classic, it's a great mic that has been used a lot, no reason to rag on it. But I like to pair it with a Sennheise 421, and some sort of LDC.

The 57 and 421 combine to give you a great amount of balls throughout the midrange, then you can use the LDC to creat a real warm and smooth sound. Really brings something out in your sound that you don't get if you just throw a 57 half an inch from your cab...

rty13ibz98 · #11 03-05-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxeHappy

Who the hell only uses 1 mic on a guitar cab?

The SM-57 is classic, it's a great mic that has been used a lot, no reason to rag on it. But I like to pair it with a Sennheise 421, and some sort of LDC.

The 57 and 421 combine to give you a great amount of balls throughout the midrange, then you can use the LDC to creat a real warm and smooth sound. Really brings something out in your sound that you don't get if you just throw a 57 half an inch from your cab...

try a ribbon mic if you can, you'll find yourself using less mics on a cab and the ribbon has a more 3D sound than any dynamic i have used. i like LDC's on EG cabs, but only when looking for a specific sound or room micing.
what preamps are you using for your mics?

rich

SonicProvocateur · #12 03-05-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxeHappy

Who the hell only uses 1 mic on a guitar cab?

Amen.

On our new album, were tracking with 3 SM57b's on the cab (on, off, and aside axis) and another LDC + amp DI from my Mesa and dry signal. You can't imagine how huge my mix sounds.

Ribbon mics are great if you are recording smaller amps, but when you pummel them with high SPL's your are asking for diaphram damage.

rty13ibz98 · #13 03-05-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicProvocateur

Ribbon mics are great if you are recording smaller amps, but when you pummel them with high SPL's your are asking for diaphram damage.

not if you place the ribbon about a foot or 2 away. using a pop filter on them helps, too. it will keep the blasts of air down to a minimum. it is a practice popularized by kick micing with ribbons.

rich

AxeHappy · #14 03-06-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rty13ibz98

what preamps are you using for your mics?

rich

Digidesign. I've used their expensive HD ones when I was in College training to be an audio engineer but I'm just on a simple LE rig at home. Nothing fancy.

I'd kill for some Avalon Preamps.

rty13ibz98 · #15 03-06-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxeHappy

I'd kill for some Avalon Preamps.

really?

i have used them and dislike them VERY much.
too damn clean for me and not in the good way. i like neve styled pres. the sound of rock is categorized by the neve sound and the api sound. i have a bit of both in my rig as well as a super clean, but with transistors instead of tubes like in the avalon.
the digi pres are widely known as being crappy in the recording industry and most people who use them are at a "have to" place. if you have an extra $300 laying around, drop it on a golden age project pre-73. that is a chinese neve 1272 clone. while not a perfect clone, the transformer weight in the low mids come out and make EG huge.
the digi pres now are worse than the ones of a few years ago that were made by focusrite. the new ones are m-audio. the focusrites are ok, they are the same ones found in the platinum range like the trakmaster, twin track, and voicemaster. good solid workhorse pres, but nothing to write home to. i owned a pair of trakmasters at one point.
moving up to NICE preamps changed my world. after buying my first neve clones i finally figured out how THAT sound was achieved. i own quite a few chameleon labs products and they continue to impress me every time i run into them.

rich