Need Help Recording. - Another amp micing discussion.

bob oakman · #1 03-28-2002, 02:49 PM

At long last I have forced a wedge into my ridiculous work schedule and started tracking a new song. I hope it will be the first of many.

I have lots of cool recording toys and a good room. My Rig is basic. It consists of a Rivera TBR-1SL plugged into a Marshall 4X12 bottom. I love the sound and want to record it as accurately as possible.

My problem is micing. In the ancient past I have used up to 5 mics on one cab, combined to get the full tone of the cab on tape. In my present studio (the work studio) all the inputs are tied up with daily production. When I begin my recording at night I have a maximum of two available. I am using a Sure SM58 close to a speaker and an AKG condenser for ambient cab. It is NOT reproducing the true sound of my rig. Sounds wimpy or kinda’ like cheap or something.

I want to solve this problem without relying on EQ and FX. Does anyone have any suggestions??

Thanks,

boB

Paul Warren · #2 03-28-2002, 03:23 PM

Well, there's got to be 1000 different opinions on this. *But what I've done is use nothing but SM57s. *One on the top right speaker and one on the bottom left. *It takes me a bit more tweaking, but I feel the tone is fairly accurate, especially once you double the rhythm tracks. *I used to have an extra 57 about 6 feet away, but I'm not doing that right now. *I'm also putting blankets around the front of the cabinet, but behind the mics, to tighten up the sound a bit. *The mics are like 1/32 of an inch off of the grill, right on the *sweet* spot of the speakers. *I just toy around with moving the mics to the right postion until I hear the tone that I think best replicates what I'm hearing ambiently. *I also have the blankets there because my neighbors complained about hearing guitar in their infant's room.

Paul

bob oakman · #3 03-28-2002, 03:58 PM

How loud are you playing Paul? Maybe I’m too soft. Your tracks sounded real good all by themselves. I felt kinda’ bad mixing the other instruments in. :biggrin:

I guess that’s another question I could pose to the Jemsite public… What is the optimum amplifier recording volume?

Well… I’m gonna’ go look for a blanket now.

Paul Warren · #4 03-28-2002, 04:22 PM

Um, not that loud. *Hmmm, don't know the decibel level, heh heh. *Nowhere near the levels people crank for live performances. *I'd say it's about loud enough where you start to feel the bass a little, but you can still stand in front of the cabinet and do harmonic squeals and it not hurt your ears. *It's just a comfortable volume I'd say. *Also, the guitar might just barely start to feedback when standing in front of the cabinet and you're not playing - just barely though.

Paul

bob oakman · #5 03-31-2002, 09:41 PM

It's funny... I have tried every position and angle on the mics. It's just not working. Maybe I have gotten too picky in my old age. It's just that I want to hear what I hear in the room with the amp and cab coming through the studio monitors. I have done it before many times, but this time, no dice.

I think I will crank up the volume a bit and see what happens.

oooo · #6 03-31-2002, 11:41 PM

Bob, I spent most of the weekend in the studio laying guitar tracks for my bands next project... *I am using a Budda Superdrive 30 into the Budda 1210 cabinet (half back cab, top has a 12" and a 10" speaker open back- bottom has a 12" and a 10" closed back) anyway, I spent most of the weekend moving mic's and trying different things. *I tried everything from 57's to Sennheiser 421's, I finally settled on a close mic'd 57 (on the open back 12" a little off center) and a AKG 414 about 6 feet away from the cabinet. *What I learned is that the smallest move on the mic makes a huge difference and it took me an increadible amount of time to get what i wanted. *I then played with the level of each mic... getting the tightness from the 57 and the ambiance from the 414.
I can't honstly say that I have the sound that I want... I plan to give my ears a rest then go back in later this week and see if I like what I hear.
My goal was to get a killer sound dry, with everything flat and add what was needed, sparingly later on. *We'll see!
I really found this combo of the 57 and a high quality condenser to be the best sounding set up for me.

musicdr · #7 04-01-2002, 12:59 AM

I also was laying rythm guitar tracks this weekend.I used a shure beta57 to close mic one 4-12.The mic was about 1/2 inch slightly off-axis of the cone.Since I have a somewhat passive sounding board(tascam m-1600),and didn't want to crank to "11",I ran the mic through an Art tube-pac(only using it for volume,not compression) to get good signal.When I added the second guitar part,instead of changing EQ or amp settings,I just moved the mic about 3 inches further to the side of the cone.I ended up with some of the best heavy rythm tracks I've ever gotten.I was using a triaxis with gain on 6.Last cd,I used too much gain on the guitars and it gave me many mixing headaches.I too want an accurate representation of my sound on tape(hard disk).Live,I would have had the gain on 8 to get my sound.I'm slowly learning that a good recorded sound,generally can be had with less gain than I think I need.Got to leave a little space for those other guys.Plus,got to leave a little room for effects at mixdown.Maybe I just got lucky! best of luck!

oooo · #8 04-02-2002, 12:13 AM

oh yeah... I almost forgot. I've been using a Prosonis tube pre-amp between the mics and the board. *It really warms up the sound. And I definitely agree with musicdr, I find that in the past I always used way to much gain when recording. *This time I've turned it down quite a bit and it seems to set better in the mix.

bob oakman · #9 04-02-2002, 01:38 AM

You guys are exactly right about the position of a mic in relation to the speaker. It makes a big difference. My frustration was that I tried all the positions and couldn't find the "sweet spot". i think I got close tonight. I used a 58 about two inches away from the cab close to the edge of a speaker cone mixed with an SM 7 positioned between the middle and the edge of a speaker. I had a little trouble with phase cancelation of certain frequencies between the two, but was able to use that to my advantage.

With the Legacy all it took was a condensor mic and a little EQ, but I didn't want that sound this time. What I wanted is pure Rivera. I am amazed how hard it is to reproduce that sound on a recording. I am running the SM 7 through an Avalon tube pre-amp. The 58 is going straight into the console.

I'm still not jumping up and down about the tone, but it's close. Now I supose the Janitor will bump the mics while dusting and I'll have to start over. :loco:

winterlong · #10 04-02-2002, 05:44 AM

If you could find a good ribbon mic like a royer that is all I ever need.