programming drums for multi track recordings

[shredmaster]

how do you guys go about programming drums if you are recording them for you album or demo if no drummer is involved? i want to make sure all the hits match the guitars; tom rolls, right amount of measures, etc. i need to make sure it all fits.

i'm going to program the drums using my E-MU rack units via midi on the pc and track everything via pro tools. thought of laying guitars to a click and then importing that track into cakewalk as wav file and programming drums to that dummy guitar track. once it all fits, then import the wav file from cakewalk into pro tools and then record guitar to that.

anyone do it differently?

[Two hands31]

I'm pretty sure you can program drums in Pro Tools, which would eliminate the need for Cakewalk

I use Cubase SX and program drums using MIDI, triggering NS_Kit7 through a VST plugin. I always record guitars to a click, even if I'm not adding drums. Partially to keep a consistent tempo, but mainly for editing purposes: all the bars and beats in your grid line up. Sometimes I program the drums first and then record guitars over top of it, sometimes I record all the guitars then add drums afterwards. Both works, just depends on when I get an idea

[Ferrous Lepidoptera]

If anybody knows any sites that explain a bit about how to make drum tracks that don't suck too badly and are more interesting than just a basic backbeat, I could use that.

I'm talking about basic stuff, like how to make a tom roll that doesn't sound like crap, or when to use the cymbals, etc. I can make a basic back beat, and maybe put some flam thing before a snare hit now and then, and maybe put a ride cymbal on top of everything sometimes and some cymbal hits here and there, but beyond that my drum programming skills are nil, so my drum tracks tend to be pretty flat and ho-hum. I get the feeling there's a lot of little "drum licks" that could add a lot of variety and liven things up, if only I knew how to make them. But I could be wrong about that too I guess, and my drum machine may be incapable of rendering many of them convincingly. (I know the tom rolls I've tried have come out terribly bad, but I don't know if I was doing it right.)

I've seen this which I've mentioned here before, but that's about all I've found.

My recording method is unorthodox, and "the hard way," so I can't really recommend it to anyone who doesn't really like doing things the hard way. I use linux, Hydrogen is my drum machine and I record that into Ardour.

[shredmaster]

thanks! i will have to see what pro tools has to offer. i have never done anything midi in it before. in cakewalk, you get the staff lines and you drop the notes where you want, giving you different drums...toms, snare, kick, etc. i wonder if pro tools would have that as well. hmmmm. i have more reading and researching to do. vst plugin? i read about them somewhere. i'm guessing they send the signal to the rack unit which creates the tones. the vst acts as a trigger?

[Jeff]

Get either Drumkit from Hell Superior or BFD. They're expensive, but they are both are really good drummer plugins.

Learn how to manipulate the velocities well. Fake drums sound fake usually because the programmer set all the velocities the exact same (especially in the hi hats or anything else played at contant 8th notes or whatever)

[Polaris20]

I use Reason's ReDrum. I just do a generic drum track, then record the rhythm guitars. Then I go back and redo the drum track to be "fancier". The only problem I have is getting it to be like a real drummer.

It doesn't slow down unexpectedly, speed up unexpectedly, doesn't show up to practice late, and doesn't try to steal my wife. Oh well, maybe in version 3.5? :lol

[Two hands31]

Originally Posted by shredmaster

thanks! i will have to see what pro tools has to offer. i have never done anything midi in it before. in cakewalk, you get the staff lines and you drop the notes where you want, giving you different drums...toms, snare, kick, etc. i wonder if pro tools would have that as well. hmmmm. i have more reading and researching to do. vst plugin? i read about them somewhere. i'm guessing they send the signal to the rack unit which creates the tones. the vst acts as a trigger?

The VST Plugin I use is called sfz, it's a sampler that I load the NS_Kit7 soundfont into, and I set the MIDI track that I've programmed my drums into (using the grid, which gives the standard General Midi drumkit layout and works fine for NS_Kit) to trigger sfz.

And yeah, velocities are extremely important.

[BCrowell]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Get either Drumkit from Hell Superior or BFD. They're expensive, but they are both are really good drummer plugins.

Heck yeah, BFD kicks arse!! Personally I what I can't play on my set, I write the notation for using cakewalk (Easier than doin' it in PT for me, as PT doesn't have notation). Then I send the midi output to BFD, or Battery, that has real drum samples. I do some songs via click only, but for feel, I always put down drums first when possible.

[Kev Brigden]

I use fruityloops myself, and use the FPC plugin with the NSkit for samples... Allows me to use every single snare hit velocity for example. FPC also allows me to route each part of the drum kit to a seperate channel in FL's mixer. Use the "split channels" function in exporting and you can import each individual drum track into cubase, as if it were recorded on multiple mics.