Quick help needed..entering the studio..

[pera_a777]

Hallo to all..
I have a few days until i enter the studio to record my bands first full lenght album..
I am on tight budget considering the guitar gear i own..and i would like to hear your advices to use it in a best possible way to get a decent guitar tone..if possible..
BTW, the studio we are recording at is a very good studio..and they everything needed (mics and stuff), but they have no guitar gear at all..
So, this is the list of my gear..
Ibanez rg7620 (stock)
Randall rx75r (1x12 75w combo..with dist, of course..)
Vox Tonelab + VC4 foot controller
(Boss sd1 super overdrive)

I was using Randall combo for gigs lately..i used its dist..and sd1 for boost on solos..it sounded ok for its purpose..
And a few days ago i purchased Vox Tonelab hearing and reading all good things about it..
But, at the moment, i am a bit confused what to try to use in the studio..

Miced Randall..? (is 1x12 capable of giving decent result..?)

Vox direct to the board..? (is that too cheap solution..)

Miced Vox Tonelab powered through Randall..? (it sounds fine fr room volumes, but not sure what would it be like when cranked..not so sure that it is rough enough to be heard in the mix..)

Guess combinating everything of mentioned would be best..but i don't have
much time to combine so much..
I know that miced tube amp would be the ultimate answer..and i will try to rent it..if i find a proper one..but still, what would you think that would be the best way to use my current gear..?
Btw, my bands sound is..hm difficult to describe..something like art pop rock/prog/heavy rock..
And cleans are not the problem..i will record them direct with Tlab..but dist worries me..for both, rhytm and lead parts..
(I also have chance to borrow Hughes&Kettner metal master..its owner says that he got great result by poweramping it and micing it that way...but we'll see..)
So, help me..!

Anyone used tonelab for some serious recording..?

[EL-CeeDee]

take what you have and record with it. LISTEN to the engineer !
I think I'd go with the miced cab ( 1x12 is great for mic'ing ), but if it doesn't work,.. try something else.

Have fun !

[pera_a777]

Well..i will try..
But, i am not too confident to the engineer..since we were doing one song before in the same studio..and distorted guitar didnt came out goo denough..still, we again chose the same studio, cause they have best equipment generally..
Any input on this topic would b ehighly apreciated..
thank you..

[pera_a777]

I am thinking about combining direct and miced through amp, too..
What is strange, but actually not suprising for most of the guitar
processors i have tried, is that i am geting best sound,at least for now, when using it on LINE settings direct into input of a clean channel of my combo..with speaker sims off..cause, when they are on, the sound is too hi fi clean, not raw enough to be heard in the mix, i guess..maybe i am wrong..(default,it should be used into return of the effect loop..i am getting nice results that way, but..maybe its just amp, but it doesn't sound live enough..so i think that use in that way owuldnt benefit me in studio..caus ei
need a sound that will fit nicely into mix..)
The thing which is not good in this setting is that if i use it(left out into amp (being mices) and right out to studio pa) is that i am not using cab sims..so that direct line to the PA will sound too harsh, probably..
Maybe the answer be to record stuff twice..first time through amp, with speaker cabs of..and second direct with spkr cabs on..Any thoughts and help of you guys is more than needed..!
I repeat..what worries me the most are heavier rhytm parts..but, maybe i should be worried by everything!And, what volume would be enough for a good micing..? my combo is 75w..how much should it be cranked..?
Thank you..

[Darin]

If you mic a cab. Ask him to put at least one mike on it. 2 or 3 in different places will give you more tonal options when mixing. DO NOT let him mix your guitar into a sucky tone. You are paying the bill. Do lay down any tracks that don't sound good period. The only exception is, if you can go home, and re-record your guitar track and take them back on a CD and have the studio drop them into the mix. Also, don't settle for one guitar track. If there is one guitar player. Record the track 2 times and mix them together. Takes the extra few minutes. You wont be sorry. I have been in a big time studio. Fantasy Studios in Berkley CA, Satch was down the hall one direction and Bobby McFarin the other direction. We were on a budget, so I'm not totally pleased with the results. But knowing now what I know. It only would have taken a few minutes to make it sound ALOT better. Our engineer worked with Europe, Night Ranger, Journey etc. He didn't push us to do better since he knew we didn't have endless cash. One more thing. Don't assume your amp needs to be cranked. It may need to be. But try different levels. Speakers cab respond differently to different volumes and can sound worse when pushed to hard.

Enjoy the ride. Studio work is great fun. And post up as soon as you get something recorded.

Darin

[pera_a777]

Thanks, Darin..
I aprecciate your help..if you remember anything else that could be useful, please, let me know..!
If anyone wants to share something here, please..!
I will let you know for sure when i record something..!
Cheers..!

[Ibanut]

Hey dude. Try to rent a great amp and make sure you have a good engineer. An engineer can make or break a recording. Make sre you are using high end mics and pre amps too. There are alot of ways to get a good sound but it starts with your hands and the engineers ears. Although these days the songs get watered down to mp3s anyway. Good luck. There are too many ways to get good sounds I just hope your engineer can help.

[Darin]

Ibanut makes a good point about the amp. If you aren't diggin your amp. And if you can, it might be wise to beg to barrow an amp from someone. Perhaps even a local music store will loan you one for a mention in your CD sleeve. Just try to think down the road to any regret you might have about the project and head them off before you hit the studio. Remember, it's a one shot deal. You don't need to be a jerk about it, but you really should not let anyone decide for you. Practice your parts, be ready so you don't eat up too much studio time, make sure you have tones you like. Perhaps you can spend some time recording you amp at home to get it EQ'd for recording ahead of time. Remember, the mic doesn't hear what you hear.

[Rip]

dude dont run direct..there is absolutely no need for that.
remember the first rule is..
make the amp sound great in the room before there is ever a mic put on it.
A mic isnt some magical piece of gear that can polish a turd.

2nd..dont use too much distortion..it wont sit good in the mix.
You might be surprised at how much you can back off but once all the instruments are mixed how dirty it sounds.

try different mics on the cabinet.
next move that mic around on the cabinet.
There is no need to put 3 mics on it..just figure it out by experimenting with it.

The mic might sound best smack dab against the outside of the speaker..perhaps nearer the center..perhaps 6 inches away..on an angle... 2 ft away..etc.

Originally Posted by pera_a777

I am thinking about combining direct and miced through amp, too..
What is strange, but actually not suprising for most of the guitar
processors i have tried, is that i am geting best sound,at least for now, when using it on LINE settings direct into input of a clean channel of my combo..with speaker sims off..cause, when they are on, the sound is too hi fi clean, not raw enough to be heard in the mix, i guess..maybe i am wrong..(default,it should be used into return of the effect loop..i am getting nice results that way, but..maybe its just amp, but it doesn't sound live enough..so i think that use in that way owuldnt benefit me in studio..caus ei
need a sound that will fit nicely into mix..)
The thing which is not good in this setting is that if i use it(left out into amp (being mices) and right out to studio pa) is that i am not using cab sims..so that direct line to the PA will sound too harsh, probably..
Maybe the answer be to record stuff twice..first time through amp, with speaker cabs of..and second direct with spkr cabs on..Any thoughts and help of you guys is more than needed..!
I repeat..what worries me the most are heavier rhytm parts..but, maybe i should be worried by everything!And, what volume would be enough for a good micing..? my combo is 75w..how much should it be cranked..?
Thank you..

[David McCarroll]

I'm surprised no one else mentioned this - take in a CD with five or six tracks on it of players who's sound you like, and tell the engineer/producer that this is the sound you are trying to base yours on - in fact when we recorded our first album we ALWAYS referenced everything back to two or three CDs which had the ambience or vibe we were trying to achieve (Barenaked Ladies "Old Apartment" in particular, which is a stellarly recorded track IMHO!) - in most cases, with any luck your engineer will have a pretty good idea of what recording techniques were used, and how to emulate them.

As someone else pointed out - if you have the time, double track your parts and pan them (not 100%) left and right - sounds MUCH thicker than one guitar - a good trick with vocals too if you want the chorus, or a line, to stand out without resorting to harmonies.

Also, almost every studio uses Amp Farm as part of their Pro-Tools rig - it's worth fiddling with the sounds you can get in Amp Farm - particularly as it is an effext added post-recording - which means that you can record using, say the '59 Bassman setting, and later change it to an AC30, or a Plexi, or whatever.

When ever we record, and I would suggest the same thing to you - don't get tricked into listening to the mixdowns and masters on the gigantic $30 000 JBL studio monitors - listen as much to how it sounds on the desk monitors (usually Yamaha NS 10s), grab a CD rough mix and listen to it in your car stereo on the way home each night - get a feel for what the end result sounds like in a realistic listening environment, not the super-duper studio environment.

AND, don't be afraid to ask questions, make comments, and tell the engineer what you want - if you don't like the sound he's getting down, tell him - try to explain why, or what you feel isn't happening - he can't read your mind, so you have to communicate - if he doesn't like that, then maybe he/she is not the right engineer for you - you can't really TELL him how to do his job, but you certainly can make suggestions as to what you really want, and whether he's getting warmer or colder!

Oh, yeah, and have fun, be relaxed, and totally, TOTALLY ban drugs and alcohol from the studio environment - seriously, I watched an entire day in a studio (quite literally) go up in smoke when one of the musicians and our engineer decided to share a monumental spliff, rendering themselves absolutely useless for the rest of the day, I have written off every bass track in a session because the bass player was still seeing dead people from a three day bender - and of course as a result of this, the drum tracks were not nearly as good as they should have been!

Hmmm, on a roll here - take spares of everything, put new strings on all your guitars the day before you start - make sure the other musicians have their gear totally together - if your drummer doesn't like his snare, hire one and rehearse with it before you record - it's all simple stuff, but you can waste half a day in a studio because the snare has an untrackable rattle, or the bass player (who invariably has no spare bass - why is that?) breaks his D string twenty seconds into the first track!

Have fun, it's a great learning experience - if you are on limited time I hope you record all your rehearsals, just on MD or cassette, and listen back super critically to the parts, arrangements etc for fit and purpose - all your lead braks should be nailed well in advance - limited studio time and improvisation are natural enemies in the wilds, and should be kept apart at all costs!

Cheers,

David