Starting a recording studio - spdif (extra$$) or USB?

yoyo1299 · #1 07-28-2007, 05:30 PM

hey all

i want to start my own recording studio for guitars, and stuff. i was originally gonna get a usb interface by m-audio or some other company. now i'm thnking that maybe spending a few more extra bux, getting a spdif sound card and a spdif mixer might get me better quality. or i might go - spdif soundcard - usb interface, but using the spdif outs in and ins - guitar for now, mixer later.

what do you guys think?

thanks all

yoyo

smurfdaddydog · #2 07-28-2007, 07:58 PM

You can go Mbox mini for $300 and run pro tools LE or get a pre Sonus fire box for $300 and run cubase LE. They are both very inexpensive, good places to start. Mbox mini is USB, Firebox is firewire. I would stay away from the m audio stuff because if you get pro tools m powered, for example it is $250 and that is just for the program, and it doesn't come with a lot of stuff LE does. You can get other cheaper interfaces and most come with cuebase LE, some with other things. You can spend way more if you want and get more options, but if money is tight then there you go. Personally I run Pro Tools but Cuebase is just as good. They both have pros and cons. My main advice would be check the manufacturer's web site and make sure that your computer fits all the requirements or you'll have lots of weird, hard to explain problems. Oh yes, and get an external hard drive for your sessions only.

yoyo1299 · #3 07-28-2007, 09:09 PM

ok thanks, so is protools LE better than pro tools? on the mbox mini, you're basicallly paying for protools LE there ain't ya?

could u answer my main Q which i didn't specifiy properly - is spdif better than usb, if so, how much better? thanks

yoyo1299 · #4 07-28-2007, 09:11 PM

btw, i looked at the mbox mini, and there's a problem. i need two xlr inputs for when i attach a mixer up to it. i need to be able to pan stuff.

smurfdaddydog · #5 07-28-2007, 10:12 PM

I would stay away from s/pdif, I have it on the back of my 002R and it only supports 2 channels. s/pdif was something Sony and phillips came up with and its kind of limiting IMHO. Fire wire is faster than USB but USB 2 is faster than firewire, The big advantage firewire has is that it can be daisy chained a lot.

That being said, Pro tools comes in 4 different flavors
1. Pro Tools Free- 8 tracks and really not worth it being that you have to be running windows ME for it to work.

2. Pro Tools M Powered- Works with some M audio interfaces But you must buy the software and the interface separately, also M Powered does not come with a lot of stuff LE does (reason adapted, live 5 lite, etc).

3. Pro Tools LE- if your going in to get this one spend a little more and get the factory bundle (extra plug-ins). You get LE free with any version of the M Box or 003 (or 002 off the bay).

All of those are native systems, meaning how powerful they are depends entirely on your computer. LE and M Powered are both 32 tracks but can be upgraded to 48. Then there is the mack daddy:

Pro Tools HD (some times referred to as TDM)-This thing runs on it's own separate card and is big bucks. But if you want to know it comes in 3 different levels of power; Accel 1 thru Accel 3.

Check out this link for more info http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/pro-t...ools_guide.php

As I have said before I run Pro Tools on a mac (actually I have 2 Pro Tools mac set ups). The M Box2 (comes with LE) at $450 Should take care of your needs if you want to go Pro Tools (I suggest M Box2 Factory), but if you want to have the ability to add up to 16 pre amps of your choosing and record straight to the track not just mixer to a stereo track go with a 003 or 003R. The 003 and 003R have 4 XLR ins with pre amps built in, 4 1/4" ins, 8 channels of ADAT lightpipe, and 2 channels s/pdif (you have to choose between ADAT or s/pdif, both won't work at the same time). If you go this rout you can have pretty much any pre amps you want and don't need a board unless you want to record more than 16 tracks at a time.

Now an important thing to realize is cuebass is just as good and way cheaper. I don't really know cuebase that well but I bet Rip could tell you all about it.

yoyo1299 · #6 07-28-2007, 10:31 PM

so why should i go for pro tools and not cubase?

smurfdaddydog · #7 07-28-2007, 10:39 PM

Again, Cuebase is every bit as good as Pro Tools. For me a Mac/Pro Tools set up was the way I decided to go. As I said before, I really do not know enough about Cuebase to tell you about it, I would suggest you wait until Rip sees your thread and chimes in. For some reason I believe he runs Cuebase or Nuendo or something, I'm really not sure, and if you don't, sorry for assuming Rip. Who knows, you may decide you want to go Sonar or Logic.

yoyo1299 · #8 07-28-2007, 11:09 PM

i would go for nuendo, but it's sooooo $$$$. will the mbox's work with nuendo? since if i decide to upgrade, nuendo will be the program i wana run.

smurfdaddydog · #9 07-28-2007, 11:22 PM

Nope, M Box will ONLY work with Pro Tools LE, nothing else. If I don't miss my guess Nuendo is mainly for Post now days and Cuebase 4 is the top of the line for music by Steinberg. I think Cuebase 4 is Native, but I'm not entirely sure. Also, at $800 it is way cheaper than Pro Tools HD. And I believe Cuebase 4 will work with lots of interfaces so you could get a cheap one to start with and upgrade later. Again, lots of stuff comes with cuebase LE (48 tracks out of the box), you could get something like that and upgrade to cuebase 4 later. But I'm a Pro Tools guy so I am really at the end of my knowledge for Steinberg stuff as of now, Wait for Rip.

yoyo1299 · #10 07-29-2007, 09:11 AM

ok thanks dude. cubase stuff seems to be a lot cheaper.

smurfdaddydog · #11 07-29-2007, 12:16 PM

It is, the main reason I went Pro Tools is because I wanted to upgrade to HD some day but many, many people will tell you that is completely unnecessary, especially if you are going to just do demo stuff. One thing that applies to every system though is get an external hard drive, the best monitors you can afford, and study how to acoustically treat your room so your mixes travel well. Egg cartons and carpet really don't cut it. If you want to see my set up here is a link www.myspace.com/eddiecurnan

yoyo1299 · #12 07-29-2007, 02:12 PM

thanks man. i talked to the sound engineer of my church (a church that has two services 5,000 people in eaxch service) about this stuff. he uses nuendo and loves it. he personally does not like pro tools. he likes cubase. he says it can do more than protools and of course it's cheaper. he also uses omega and m-audio interfaces for small stuff (they have the 10,000 dollar yahama digital mixer). he recommended the m-audio mobile pre since it has two xlrs. he said i could upgrade later, and for small stuff it's fine right now.

the big cheese was this. He said he has an extra copy of Cubase, and that he will give it to me for... FREE!! yeah, plus he said he will come with me to GC and get me a discount on w.e i buy!! SWEET! yeah. so i thk it's gonna be cubase LE for me. what interface, i dunno. we'll see. i'm looking at the mackie onyx recoreding thingy now that i don't need software to be bundled with it.

smurfdaddydog · #13 07-29-2007, 05:07 PM

Free is almost always good, just, please, do not use illegally pirated software. That is bad. But I'm guessing that if its coming from a guy in a church he knows stealing is breaking a commandment. Yes, some people say screw Pro Tools, some scream Cuebase is worthless. Personally I think they are both great. To each their own, not my place to judge. The cool thing is they both work on mac or pc, and most plug ins (which will become very important to you, trust me) come in RTAS (Pro Tools) and VST (Cuebase). In fact they come in more than just those two usually. And if there is something RTAS you want that does not come VST you can get a wrapper to make RTAS work in Cuebase. You have tons of options with VST and Cuebase, good luck and have fun with it. I would just reccomend you get an interface that has built in pre amps, they usually sound better than some inexpencive board you would run through. Also, owning this stuff is one thing, knowing how to use it is quite another. Check out this link http://www.grooveboxmusic.com/store/home.php? They have studio training for lots of different platforms as well as mic techniques.

yoyo1299 · #14 07-29-2007, 06:21 PM

ok thanks dude. and no, it's not pirated. it's an actual copy. i've heard about plugins and stuff, but what would i actually use them for??? thanks dude.

smurfdaddydog · #15 07-29-2007, 06:36 PM

You use plug ins for everything! EVERYTHING! Amp emulation (check this out http://www.amplitube.com/Main.html?prod_AT.php ), EQ, delay, reverb, etc. the list just goes on and on. Check out www.secretsofthepros.com and I highly recomend the DVD modern recording and mixing. And while I'm at it there is a book by Mitch Gallegher about acoustic design for the home studio that is worth every penny and then some. Last but not least a book called professional microphone techniques. I highly recomend them all.