tips for multitrack recording, need help!

[MF_Kitten]

whenever i´ve recorded drums, it´s always been individual mikes on things, and stereo overheads... then it goes through an analogue mixer, and then into software on the computer... maybe i´ve used the EQ on the mixer sometimes...

now, what i WANT to do is to record the drums with the mikes, but get the individual mike-tracks separated in the software, like a snare-only track, a bass drum only-track etc etc...

what kind of solution would you go for?

i´m not searching for a full solution, just a way to get 9 individual XLR´s into my computer, and recording them as individual tracks simultaneously...

ANY advice about hardware or whatever is appreciated, right now i have a M-audio Firewire solo, with a maximum of a staggering 2 inputs at a time... which means either single XLR/single jack input at the same time, OR a stereo line input (from the mixer)...

[alex10]

i would recomend a firewie/usb mixer.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/NRV10-main.html

[MF_Kitten]

yeah, that´s what i was leaning towards too, but i didn´t like that m-audio one, not enough inputs :P

need more inputs :P

definitely getting warmer with the firewire/usb thingy though... i´m still needing at least 9 XLR inputs, and maybe a left/right line input for the output from a trigger module, for mixing the sounds...

but yeah, still taking suggestions thanks btw :P

[Rip]

you can trigger the sounds AFTER its laid down not during.
So there is 2 less inputs you need.

I dont know how big your drumset is but back when i co owned a studio
i never had any need to bust into my 2nd set of 8 d/a converters unless
i was recording the full band at once.

Im not sure if thats what you need to do or not
but if you are recording only drums first there shouldnt be any need for more than 8 inputs at MOST.
If you're newer to recording you're just going to have more phasing issues with more mics.
1 kick inside
2 kick outside
3 snare
4 tom
5 tom
6 tom
7 OH left
8 OH right

if you're going to trigger your kick later..no need for the outside kick mic
and you can use it how you see fit...(hihat..another tom..etc)

there are a billion choices out there with 8 inputs.

Absolutely always use a click..its one of the simpliest things that will make a song sound 100times better.
If the drummer doesnt know the material without the guitar simply record a scratch guitar first with the click

[MF_Kitten]

i´ve recorded alot before... the drumkit isn´t mine though, i´m the guitarist :P

the 9 inputs are for:

1 snare
5 toms
2 bass drums
2 overheads

so it´s 10 actually, come to think of it

and about the triggers, i was thinking more like having triggers on the drums, connected to a module, and the module connected to a stereo input... so you get the trigger module sound and the microphone sound together...

see what i mean now?

also, any other recording, vocals, guitars/bass etc would be done with some other sound card, this would be for drums only...

[Rip]

well just my opinion once again..
but toms can share mic's ya know.

Concidering for years apon years kits were miced with 3 mics total
and done correctly sounds great...
having 2 toms share a mic is more than fine.

[Rip]

If you get a d/a with 8 in and out
once you get the sounds to tape you can buss individual drums to the
individual drum module inputs.

A snare while you're tracking might not be the best choice when you goto mixdown. best to leave those options till then.

You can always import your sounds and trigger them via the software program as well.

Just givin you options

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Rip

well just my opinion once again..
but toms can share mic's ya know.

Honestly, you're going to have a hard time finding a "project studio" grade Firewire interface that can handle more than 8 tracks at once. You may be able to buy two and chain them together for a total of 16, but even on the cheaper end of things that puts you in the $1200 range.

As I understand, even professional studios rarely mic each tom individually, but rather put a mic between two toms. So, if you have five toms like such:

O O O O O

You could mike them like such:

OiO OiO iO

With a single mic on the two smallest, another on the next two smallest, and a single mic on your largest tom. This will give you perfectly acceptable sound and a goood stereo spread, and will chop the number of mics you need down by two, to 8.

It's also possible, if you're going to insist on micing each tom individually, to pick up a small mixer board capable of handling 5 mics, and route individual tom mics through this. Get the stereo spread and levels for the toms relative to each other down, and then send a stereo mix to two channels of your Firewire interface. This would take you down to seven mics instead of ten, and would be just as viable - you'd be stuck with the levels relative to each other in a mix, but you're not likely to vary that much once you get it down, and toms are generally processed and EQ'd identically in a mix.

Insisting on a single channel for five different toms is needlessly complex and expensive, and doesn't offer much in the way of an improvement over the simpler and cheaper alternatives.

[MF_Kitten]

well, i just came up with another option... and thanks to you guys for the multi-mic for the toms suggestion, i´m not sure it´ll sound like i like it, but its worth a shot!

what i´m thinking is put the toms only, into the analogue mixer, run them dry with no eq or anything, into a stereo input, with corect panning and all... and then have separate overheads, snare and double kicks...

so it´s
1: toms, stereo input (l/r)
2: snare, 1 xlr
3: kick drums, 2 xlr
4: overheads, 2 xlr...
5: Drumkit trigger module, stereo input (l/r)

so 5 XLR´s and two stereo inputs... alternatively, the trigger module can be set up to send a midi only signal to the computer with a software instrument drumkit... but modules sound nice too :P

any suggestions now? i´s just 5 separate XLR tracks simultaneously with 2 stereo inputs at the same time... so it´s not as much... still a lot, but not as much! :P

[MF_Kitten]

also, Rip, i don´t think tracking it afterwards is going to be an option, as it´s not fun :P

it´s simply simpler to do it with the trigger module at the same time...

so in the software you´d have Toms in one track, snare in another, then kick drums, then overheads, then trigger module input... all separate and independent, and really making for a flexible solution, making your drums sound reeealy good :P

BTW, i remember at a school i went to, they had a digital mixer with a whole bunch of XLR inputs (though the mixer was impossibly complex and un-user friendly) and an optical out... this optical out went into a receiver soundcard with optical input, and xlr and stuff on the front... then we could have like 12 or more different xlr input tracks at the same time! pretty crazy, and that mixer is probably expensive, but it just has to be possible to do the same but dropping the whole mixer and just having a bunch of inputs going clean into the computer...

In fact, i found this:
http://www.procom.no/ny/images/io26_layers.jpg
http://www.procom.no/ny/images/alesisio26bakstor.jpg

it has 8 XLR/line in´s, and below each a guitar input, switchable.. it has phantom power and lots of other ins/outs, and it´s really affordable... about 650 dollars/334 pounds...

anyone think it´s worth it? :P

[David McCarroll]

Isn't the trigger a MIDI signal? If so, then just record the MIDI info - takes no memory space and doesn't hog an audio track - also you can use it to trigger whatever sound you want down the track?

[MF_Kitten]

the triggers are like... individual drum triggers on each part of the drumkit, the toms, kicks and snare... hey are fed into a trigger module, and it´s basically like an electric drumkit that you play on a real drumkit... and we want the sound from this module into a separate track aswell... it´s the actual module-sound, and not the midi signal we really want, in other words...

[shredmaster]

you need a designated track for each mic you use on the drums. that way you can EQ and mix levels. this is very valuable. either that or you continue to do what you are doing...which is EQ'ing as you record and making sure the levels are good to tape. this can work.

i use pro tools Digi002R. that has 8 1/4" and 4 XLR inputs on the back. i also picked up a Presonus 8 channel that links to the digi002R, giving me 16 tracks simultaneously. i usually mic each of the toms and pan accordingly for stereo, 2 overheads, kick and floor tom, snare and high hat. anywhere between 6-10 mics. may sound overkill but it sounds killer. and if i don't need a couple mics....i take down the faders. better to have them than not.

[MF_Kitten]

that sounds like my kind of setup allright! :P

[yoyo1299]

that digital mixer at your old school would have cost at least $1500. Digital or S/PDIF, is actually fiberoptix, one of the fastest and best signals out there right now. To get pro sound, you want to use that. But only digital mixers will work with that.

You're not gonna be able to get each separate drum track onto the PC separately if you go into a trigger module first. The computer will pick up the signal as one complete signal, the best way to solve this is like you said, make the tom toms one signal, and separate the others....

that's my lil help

btw, WTF is your drummer doing with FIVE toms!!!