Very Baisc Recording Setup Question

Rob A · #1 06-16-2006, 06:16 PM

Hi there,

I'm looking to record (how many threads have started liek this?). Basically, I just want to mike up my amp, nothing fancy and was wondering if the following system will work (yes I searched, and found something similar on DIY Stomopboxes.com but couldn't see the pic properly, so I turned to you guys/gals):

Amp -> Mic (any recommendations that are similar to shure sm57) -> XLR -> mixer -> lineout -> computer (line in)

Ive got a pretty poor amp/guitar setup, so nothing fancy, plus its jsut for recording backing parts for me to practice improv. Later, might look to upgrade - can this system be upgraded.

I'm just wondering whether this will work, and the quality of it. Looking at a cheap Behringer mixer, 802.

Also, do I need any preamps? Or is this in the mixer?

I was also looking at USB interfaces, like the Tascam. However, they cost more, but how does quality compare?

thadood · #2 06-16-2006, 07:08 PM

That's the gist of it.
a Behringer mixer will work, but it'll lack a pre. Check out Art's pres or what Behringer offers. I'm sure Presonus may have some cheap pre's as well. Or, just combine the cost, and buy a mixer with built-in mic pre's.

I suggest a Sennheiser e609 silver in place of a 57. If you can, get a 57 as well, and mic the back of the cab for more bass and an off-axis(is it? you may have phasing issues this way, hell if I know, I'm pulling this part out of my ass.) or a few feet in front and above the mic for a good solo tone to go with the up-close mic placement.

Rob A · #3 06-17-2006, 06:35 AM

Hey dood, same numebr of posts!

Ok, about the preamp: Ive was looking at the Behringer, and it said it had an 'invisible preamp'. I laugh. Seriously, it looks like Ill need one, but I can probably build one.

Anyone else use the same setup? Tips? ALso, the mike - I was looking for something a bit cheaper than the shure.

Rob A · #4 06-18-2006, 02:50 PM

Ok guys, been doing a bit of research. Found 2 possible routes:

1) Guitar -> amp -> mic -> mixer via XLR -> line out to line in of PC

2) Guitar -> amp -> mic -> USB/firewire interface -> PC via USB/firewire

Number 1 I think is cheaper, as you can pick up some cheap mixers. So far, the candidates are: Behringer UB802, Tapco Blend 6/6306 Phonic MU802/(AM220). Any advice? (You can see my budget by these!)

Also, am I correct in saying that I would need to upgrade my soundcard?

For #2, they seem a bit more expensive, and I can't reall find one that's under £100, that has 1/2 XLR (pref. 2), phantom power, level adjus, etc without the extra stuff.

Edit: Doh! realised I spelt the title wrong!

3) Make one! Any other DIYs had a go? Ive got experience, done some pedals from scratch, but the whole level differences confuse me.

Rob A · #5 06-19-2006, 03:40 PM

C'mon guys, any help?

Do any of you have any experience with any of the following?

>£60
Behringer UB802
Phonic MU802

< £60
Tapco Blend 6/6306
Peavey PV6
Soundcraft Compact 4
Yamaha MG10/2

Any other recommendations?

Ozzdoc · #6 06-19-2006, 08:34 PM

Just save up a little more and get a very nice mixer with preamps included. Also for more options/upgrading in the future/sound quility will be better iif you get a new soundcard like a Creative Soundblaster X-fi etc...

JESTER700 · #7 06-19-2006, 11:45 PM

Get a good, non-gamer card. Historically, the Creative cards have been slammed by audio people - up to the Audigy. I have no idea about the newer one. Echo's MIA and M-Audio's AUDIOPHILE are well respected $100 cards. My MIA works great. You can try using your current card to see how well it works, though. Maybe you can put off buying a new one.

If you buy a mixer, make sure the mixer it has 2 XLR inputs with 48v Phantom power - you'll want stereo ability, and will likely end up with a condensor for vocals soon enough.

Or, skip those and get the firewire or USB interface. I have no first hand experience there.

Rob A · #8 06-20-2006, 03:01 PM

Cool. Thanks guys!

I was thinking about using 2 mics for 1 amp, and would like to input these into my PC as 2 tracks - so I can EQ sep or mix/pan, etc seperately, instead of having them mixed. I presume a mixer can't do this (duh, look at the name!) but can a USB/firewire interface do this?

Rotti · #9 06-20-2006, 04:09 PM

The Behringer would be fine. I'm sure it has some sort of preamp that will bring your mic up to level. If money is tight just go with the basic setup you described. I have a V-tech vt-1050 mic and I think it is excellent for the money. It's kind of an SM57 clone I think.
Your soundcard would probably be fine also for basic recording and playing back of one track at a time. You could probably listen to your rythm track and record leads over top with even the cheapest soundcards.

Rob A · #10 06-20-2006, 05:07 PM

Thanks! It has 'Invisible preamps'! What?!? Any help? Even if the preamps were inadequate, I'm sure I could build some

Surely if I were to record by USB/FW anyway, it would make sense to get a soundcard, to aid with mixing?

Sorry to hijack my own thread, but I was thinking of recording the amp with 2 mics, eg front and back, or miking up myself and a friend. Is it possible to input them into my PC as 2 seperate tracks, record them as 2 seperate tracks, then later mix, eq, pan, etc? Or does this require more expensive gear? Or should I just go 1 track at a time?

JESTER700 · #11 06-20-2006, 08:44 PM

The Behringer's "invisible" pres just mean that it's clean and doesn't color the sound. Really, most modern pres are pretty good - even the cheap ones in small mixers. If you get the Behringer, I wouldn't sweat this one; I'm with Rotti - it'll do fine.

If you get a USB/FW interface, it can also serve as your output box for mixing.

With any stereo card, you can record as a stereo signal and later split to 2 mono tracks, so no biggie there. Crosstalk is usually <-90dB, so no worries.

Rob A · #12 06-21-2006, 05:36 PM

Thanks for all the help; it's so invaluable to talk to people who can offer answers, esp with a person like me!

With this 2 channel thing, I think what i could do is either:

1) pan the signals hard right/left, and then that way, I could basically get them each side, as individual tracks.

2)build my own mixer thing, and have the option of 2 seperate output, and either put as 1 mono cable or stay as 2 phono (if I got a card such as the Audioplie 2496)...or mod the behringer, thus invaliding my warranty, and since it's probably all smd...

To Jester: when you say "it can also serve as your output box for mixing", what do you mean? And I take it that the crosstalk is the mixing of 2 signals and is unwanted, thus lower dB, the better?

Anyone else record 2 guitarists or mic up and amp with 2 mics?

Ibanut · #13 06-21-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob A

Thanks for all the help; it's so invaluable to talk to people who can offer answers, esp with a person like me!

With this 2 channel thing, I think what i could do is either:

1) pan the signals hard right/left, and then that way, I could basically get them each side, as individual tracks.

2)build my own mixer thing, and have the option of 2 seperate output, and either put as 1 mono cable or stay as 2 phono (if I got a card such as the Audioplie 2496)...or mod the behringer, thus invaliding my warranty, and since it's probably all smd...

To Jester: when you say "it can also serve as your output box for mixing", what do you mean? And I take it that the crosstalk is the mixing of 2 signals and is unwanted, thus lower dB, the better?

Anyone else record 2 guitarists or mic up and amp with 2 mics?

What is you total budget for this set up youre looking for?
You can track 2 mics. Try one is front off axis from the center if the speaker cone and one in back of the amp then blend. If you get the right software you can duplicate the front track and pan then.

JESTER700 · #14 06-21-2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob A

To Jester: when you say "it can also serve as your output box for mixing", what do you mean? And I take it that the crosstalk is the mixing of 2 signals and is unwanted, thus lower dB, the better?

Anyone else record 2 guitarists or mic up and amp with 2 mics?

I just meant that if you get an interface, it will handle playback duties as well, so no need to also get a new soundcard. Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like you were considering that.

I record 2 mics at once pretty often. I just do it as a stereo signal. I sometimes split them into separate tracks, but my mixing software allows me to just use one channel or the other on each track, so I don't really have to.

Yes, crosstalk is the mixingof the channels, but it's specd similar to a signal to noise ratio, so a HIGHER number is better. It shouldn't be more than a few dB less than the S/N or dynamic range.

Rob A · #15 06-22-2006, 03:04 PM

Sorry if i'm confusing. What I basically want is some way getting at least 2 mics onto my pc, (possibly more mics, or 2 mics +1 line in) as seperate tracks. Now the way I see things, I don't really want a mixer that just gives me a stereo output, as this means that I can't record 2 (or more) seperate tracks. Or does it? I was looking at Audacity, and there are options for stereo inputs. So if I could isolate mic 1 to left, and mic 2 to right, this could work - but would limit me to only 2 tracks.

Looking at the plethora of USB interfaces, I still don't understand one thing: do they act like a mixer and record as just a stereo track, or do they isolate them individual tracks and input them as individual tracks? This would save money greatly if the later was correct.

I was having a look at the cheaper soundcards, and they have 2 inputs.* Thus, I could get a converter for each mic, and put the out into the in of the card. This would be in mono - does recording in stereo have any advantages? (I presume not, since a guitar is mono!)

*Well, looking at the m-audio audiophile 2496, there are 4 RCA jacks, but 2 are inputs, 2 are outputs. Thus, I assume that means a max of 2 tracks recording at any one time. Whereas something like the Delta 44 or audiophile 192 has 4 or 3 inputs - does this mean 4 or 3 simultaneous tracks? I'm currently searching about those two.