dimarzio/rg questions

[Homebake]

so i have an rg2550z with stock pups in em. eventually (soonish) i will upgrade them, most likely to dimarzios. people say the only let down in these guitars are the pups.

i constantly see suggestions of air nortons in neck and tone zones in the bridge for rgs.

the kind stuff i play ranges from paul gilbert sounding stuff through vai, satch, hendrix, zeppelin, and RHCP type funk, but leaning towards the metal/shreddy type stuff.

i've read reviews on tone zones (no guitars around with em to try em out) saying they sound really harsh/gritty? according to dimarzio's website and the fact that gilbert used to use them, they're pretty good for fast kinda lead/shred stuff?

since getting my RG (my first 24 fretter) i've discovered the sound you get out of the neck pups are not as warm as say a strat for example.

which pickup in the neck would give more warmth/bass, if any?

so basically, i'm pretty much looking for a more quality sound, if that makes sense. the tone i'm thinking of would be kind of like paul gilberts crossed with vai's. not as sharp and harsh as gilberts but not as processed and smooth as vai's. kind of like guthrie govans actually lol.

i'm running through a mesa 5:25 as well.

[Jaden]

Paf pro neck - paf pro bridge.
works for me and I play a lot of different stuff but mainly rock.

PG used paf pros for years and Vai had paf pros on early jems.

they are your do it (almost) all pickups

TZ/AN is also awesome, the AN is especially good and you shoudl get the sound you want from the neck pup.

[Homebake]

yeah, i've been reading up on AN's in the last 30 mins or so, they do seem really good.

what's the difference between the PAF pros and the TZ?

[jono]

the TZ has about a 25% more output and way more mids and bass frequencies, to the point that I think it starts to get too muddy. Especially through Mesa amps (which i a shame as Petrucci never seemed to have that problem )

I too am a big fan of the twin Paf pro combo, I also really like the Fred in the bridge and Paf pro int he neck combo as found on the JS1000. you could try looking into the Paf Joe and Mo' Joe as well.

[jazzedout]

Paf Pro is a great choice allround but if you could find a Fred to try on the neck position, give it a shot. To my ears it is warmer than the Paf Pro and gives me a better flutty/Santana like organic tone (I hope you understand the sound I try to describe).
I haven't tried the TZ on a Mesa, but with a British amp it adds body to the sound and I love the way it sounds when you add palm muted or pinched harmonics phrases to your playing.
Just my 2p...

[eviltwin]

Originally Posted by Homebake

so i have an rg2550z with stock pups in em. eventually (soonish) i will upgrade them, most likely to dimarzios. people say the only let down in these guitars are the pups.

i constantly see suggestions of air nortons in neck and tone zones in the bridge for rgs.

the kind stuff i play ranges from paul gilbert sounding stuff through vai, satch, hendrix, zeppelin, and RHCP type funk, but leaning towards the metal/shreddy type stuff.

i've read reviews on tone zones (no guitars around with em to try em out) saying they sound really harsh/gritty? according to dimarzio's website and the fact that gilbert used to use them, they're pretty good for fast kinda lead/shred stuff?

since getting my RG (my first 24 fretter) i've discovered the sound you get out of the neck pups are not as warm as say a strat for example.

which pickup in the neck would give more warmth/bass, if any?

so basically, i'm pretty much looking for a more quality sound, if that makes sense. the tone i'm thinking of would be kind of like paul gilberts crossed with vai's. not as sharp and harsh as gilberts but not as processed and smooth as vai's. kind of like guthrie govans actually lol.

i'm running through a mesa 5:25 as well.

hmmm I think you are looking in the wrong direction.

First, the 2550 already has Dimarzio pups. You cannot ''upgrade" them to DiMarzios.

All three are high output. All are made in NYC. They are the same "qaulity" as everything else Dimarzio makes. The neck DiMarzioŽ IBZ-N is bright and based upon the Super2, the bridge DiMarzioŽ IBZ-B is warm and load, kinda between the Super Distortion and Steve Morse. http://www.dimarzio.com/site/#/faq/

Second, Pablo's "harsh" tone currently comes from using low power pups (air classic, paf) while Vai's "smooth" tone comes from using high power pups (breed, evo)

Third, getting warm strat neck sounds from a neck humbucker is difficult, especially with the bright DiMarzioŽ IBZ-N. I think you should use the in-between 4th setting (parallel single) and roll off some tone.

[Homebake]

Originally Posted by eviltwin

hmmm I think you are looking in the wrong direction.

First, the 2550 already has Dimarzio pups. You cannot ''upgrade" them to DiMarzios.

All three are high output. All are made in NYC. They are the same "qaulity" as everything else Dimarzio makes. The neck DiMarzioŽ IBZ-N is bright and based upon the Super2, the bridge DiMarzioŽ IBZ-B is warm and load, kinda between the Super Distortion and Steve Morse. http://www.dimarzio.com/site/#/faq/

Second, Pablo's "harsh" tone currently comes from using low power pups (air classic, paf) while Vai's "smooth" tone comes from using high power pups (breed, evo)

Third, getting warm strat neck sounds from a neck humbucker is difficult, especially with the bright DiMarzioŽ IBZ-N. I think you should use the in-between 4th setting (parallel single) and roll off some tone.

in every instance i've seen everyone call the dimarzio/ibz pups generic stock kinda pups. i mean, if they're as quality as the other "branded" dimarzio pups, why don't any pros use em? and the ibanez's with the air nortons and tone zones and stuff always cost more.

[jono]

Originally Posted by eviltwin

hmmm I think you are looking in the wrong direction.

First, the 2550 already has Dimarzio pups. You cannot ''upgrade" them to DiMarzios.

All three are high output. All are made in NYC. They are the same "qaulity" as everything else Dimarzio makes. The neck DiMarzioŽ IBZ-N is bright and based upon the Super2, the bridge DiMarzioŽ IBZ-B is warm and load, kinda between the Super Distortion and Steve Morse. http://www.dimarzio.com/site/#/faq/

Second, Pablo's "harsh" tone currently comes from using low power pups (air classic, paf) while Vai's "smooth" tone comes from using high power pups (breed, evo)

Third, getting warm strat neck sounds from a neck humbucker is difficult, especially with the bright DiMarzioŽ IBZ-N. I think you should use the in-between 4th setting (parallel single) and roll off some tone.

Know it all But yeah... those are some facts that the rest of us seem to have overlooked and really shouldn't have!!! the views on the pickups still stand though It's just things are never as simple as we'd like

[rob777vdy]

like jaden said paf-pro neck and bridge is a great combination,your rg would be just like the 777 jem series.im upgrading the pickups in my rg2550z to evo's h-s-h.i already have a 777 so pointless fitting my rg with paf-pros.Paf-pros are very versitile and great for 1980s type of tone.

[eviltwin]

Originally Posted by Homebake

in every instance i've seen everyone call the dimarzio/ibz pups generic stock kinda pups.

Everybody who does that is wrong. They are not generic, in fact the regular models: (TZ, PAf etc.) are truely generic.

Those are designed as lowest common denominator, whereas the IBZs are matched to the guitars they are put in (for example different types for RG or S guitars) much like the evo or breeds. How they sound to you is personal, but never generic.

i mean, if they're as quality as the other "branded" dimarzio pups, why don't any pros use em?

Pros get endorsed to play these models of dimarzios, they are not endorsed to play IBZs, as Dimarzio cannot sell dimarzio IBZs separately.

Note that the dimarzio IBZ are also "branded" Dimarzio. In fact these carry a big-ass dimarzio logo, while the PAFs (no logo) or even the Evos (impossibly small logo) never did.

and the ibanez's with the air nortons and tone zones and stuff always cost more.

They can ask more, so they will. This thread shows how easily people can be tricked to pay more.

I'm sure Ibanez are getting a good deal on their OEM models, but that doesn't make them inferior to the other OEM Dimarzios like the Evo, Breed, EvH (axis?) AT-1, D-Sonic etc. or the "branded" dimarzios they are based upon.

Because Satch, Timmy and Vai are both ibby and dimarzio endorsees, they get their OEM pup sold to the general public. Same for Petrucci. In some cases they even have additional models not sold as OEM (Evo2, Mo' Joe)

From Dimarzios point of view having these OEM Dimarzio IBZ models also makes sense. Having your flagship products available on a bog standard ibby, would diminish the Dimarzio brand. Much less so when ibby put Airs and TZs in their J-Custom line or top prestiges.

I don't think it is a coincidence that they made the pups on the 3550 yellow and zebra. They needed that in order to make the "real" dimarzios appear "special".

Lastly, many people have also praised the RG550 Reissue pups (which aren't Dimarzio at all) and many others have called the TZ muddy, Evos harsh etc.....YMMV

[Homebake]

well that clears some stuff up.

i don't want to get a vai sound. maybe similar, but definitely not like his. or anyone else's for that matter, but somewhere in between vai and gilbert maybe. i don't like satch's tone most of the time TBH, too nasally. like i said earlier, vai's sound's far too processed and artificial sometimes (eg live at the astoria, it's awful on that IMO). i like his tone best on eat em and smile and perhaps PaW, it's got a tonne of distortion but still manages to sound really smooth and kinda "vintage" or something.

also, why the hell do humbuckers always wobble like crazy? every humbucker equipped guitar i've played has that.

[jono]

Originally Posted by eviltwin

Everybody who does that is wrong. They are not generic, in fact the regular models: (TZ, PAf etc.) are truely generic.

Those are designed as lowest common denominator, whereas the IBZs are matched to the guitars they are put in (for example different types for RG or S guitars) much like the evo or breeds. How they sound to you is personal, but never generic.

I disagree, the regular models are not designed to be generic in any way shape or form. Models like the TZ and PAF Pro are designed not for the lowest common denominator but for specific tonal characteristics (extra bass and mids, high output, single coil type sounds etc etc.)

The IBZs are designed specifically for the guitars they're in yes, but to give a generic rock sound. Those seeking a more personalised and less generic sound generally replace their pickups with something more pronounced.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

[jono]

Originally Posted by Homebake

also, why the hell do humbuckers always wobble like crazy? every humbucker equipped guitar i've played has that.

It's the way they're mounted on springs usually. If you try a late model floral JEM, they have pickups directly mounted to the body (or on firm bushings or whatever) and they don't wobble at all. EVH used to believe this gives a "better" tone, allegedly.

I think it looks cool too

[Homebake]

Originally Posted by jono

I disagree, the regular models are not designed to be generic in any way shape or form. Models like the TZ and PAF Pro are designed not for the lowest common denominator but for specific tonal characteristics (extra bass and mids, high output, single coil type sounds etc etc.)

The IBZs are designed specifically for the guitars they're in yes, but to give a generic rock sound. Those seeking a more personalised and less generic sound generally replace their pickups with something more pronounced.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

yeah, that's what i always thought. they're probably just as good "quality" as the "branded" dimarzio's (AN, TZ etc) but they're still the basic, generic "rock" tone.

[eviltwin]

Funny, when I look at OP's requests he seems to be looking for a generic rock tone (midway between Vai and Gilbert?) The pickup they have in common is the PAF-Pro, you cannot get more generic rock than that.

NOTE: I love the tone of my 777DY, I'm not knocking the PAF, I'm rocking the PAF

For every positive qualification there is a negative description for the same thing:

warm = muddy
harsh = presence, cuts through the mix
loud = no dynamics (pick sensitive?)
low power = more sustain (low string pull)

The IBZs are designed specifically for the guitars they're in yes, but to give a generic rock sound

I don't agree, Ibanez asked Dimarzio to design bright (harmonically active) pups for the RGs as they are basswood, which sounds dark.

The fact that the top RG (the RGT320) still uses its matched Dimarzio IBZs proves that.
Perhaps Dimarzio's pups are designed towards superstrats (bolt-on)

BTW Ibby's description of those pups does not exactly match that on the Dimarzio website:
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/..._id=274&now=41

Dimarzio uses some technical tricks to get away from the generic middle ground, -MOR rock/metal sound- such as dual resonance and air.
These tricks I would classify as "quality", but they don't offer what Homebake is looking for.