New pickups sound like CRAP!!!

Smitty · #1 03-04-2008, 10:40 PM

A well known and respected guitar tech in my area installed an Air Zone in the bridge position and Air Norton in the neck position of my Schecter Custom Shop while also setting up action, fret leveling and crowning, etc. The pickups have some serious problems.
The guitar is just the 2 humbuckers, 3-way switch, master volume, and master tone with coil tap. It used to have a Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge and '59 in the neck. They sounded ok.
Now, the Air Zone sounds sort a like a tele bridge pickup and both guitars have that "clunky" low end of single coils, if you get what I mean. He also set it up so that "full humbucker" mode has the tone knob popped up (weird I know.) He said that the "wiring is really weird" and that he "just couldn't get full humbucker mode with the tone knob down." This is sort of annoying, but whatever.
Tone knob down is out of phase, which sounds like a $hitty wah and an octave/fuzz pedal were turned on. I told him the problems and he's going to fix it for free, and I assume the problem was that I told him to wire it just how the Seymours were; well, DiMarzios and SD's are different brands, and they have different wiring schemes and colors.
I've come to the conclusion that the guitar was wired in parallel. I've never played a guitar wired in parallel, but I've heard that's what Paul Gilbert does sometimes and it sure sounds like his weird single coil-ish humbucker tone. I have no idea what he did with the "out of phase" thing--All I wanted was a coil tap, but it's just crazy. I emailed Schecter and DiMarzio for some wiring schemes to help him out (he rarely deals with DiMarzio and never deals with Schecter). But I'm sorely confused; he's a fantastic, well known luthier and I've seen his work before. It's always been great.
Maybe it's something that I could work on myself? First off, I suck at soldering so that's out of the question. I'd rather have him or someone else do it. The pickups are rather close to the strings, so my guess is that MIGHT have something to do with it?
I just need some suggestions. I'm still sorta stumped as to why it sounds like crap.

**elcid** · #2 03-04-2008, 10:45 PM

Learn to solder. If that's out of the question, just let him fix it but be more specific about what you want. Dont just say "wire it like it was". Any tech worth a sht can wire pickups regardless of who makes them.

Smitty · #3 03-04-2008, 10:48 PM

Yeah, I had assumed that he would be able to figure it out. This time I'm going to be very specific.
I really have no idea why he couldn't get full humbucker mode with the tone knob down, or why the "out of phase" sounds so crappy.
smitty

toshiro · #4 03-04-2008, 11:12 PM

He probably wired the Dimarzios using Duncan's color code, which would be off a lot.

rty13ibz98 · #5 03-04-2008, 11:38 PM

he's well known and well respected in your area? maybe it's just me, but that is pretty bad. he needs to do his homework before digging into your axe. if i am not mistake, if he wired up a dimarzio as a duncan, it'll either be out of phase or in single coil mode. at any rate, that is stupid of him, now it's an inconvienence for both of you to have your axe down and for him to work on it. that's why you should learn to diy. pickup swap is usually a $35 minimum. a soldering iron, a cheap multimeter, and a some extra wire/solder is cheaper than that.

rich

Rotti · #6 03-05-2008, 12:00 AM

Take it to someone else.

rty13ibz98 · #7 03-05-2008, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotti

Take it to someone else.

that's a great alternative, too.

rich

Lefty Robb · #8 03-05-2008, 12:39 AM

If the guy didn't know how to wire them, all he had to do was go on the web and go to DiMarzio's website, it isn't rocket science. And I'm not sure if these were new pickups or not, but theres usually a little sheet inside each new one telling you all sorts of different wiring patterns. I agree with everyone else, take it someone else.

losgatosrg350dx · #9 03-05-2008, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty

A well known and respected guitar tech in my area installed an Air Zone in the bridge position and Air Norton in the neck position of my Schecter Custom Shop while also setting up action, fret leveling and crowning, etc. The pickups have some serious problems.
The guitar is just the 2 humbuckers, 3-way switch, master volume, and master tone with coil tap. It used to have a Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge and '59 in the neck. They sounded ok.
Now, the Air Zone sounds sort a like a tele bridge pickup and both guitars have that "clunky" low end of single coils, if you get what I mean. He also set it up so that "full humbucker" mode has the tone knob popped up (weird I know.) He said that the "wiring is really weird" and that he "just couldn't get full humbucker mode with the tone knob down." This is sort of annoying, but whatever.
Tone knob down is out of phase, which sounds like a $hitty wah and an octave/fuzz pedal were turned on. I told him the problems and he's going to fix it for free, and I assume the problem was that I told him to wire it just how the Seymours were; well, DiMarzios and SD's are different brands, and they have different wiring schemes and colors.
I've come to the conclusion that the guitar was wired in parallel. I've never played a guitar wired in parallel, but I've heard that's what Paul Gilbert does sometimes and it sure sounds like his weird single coil-ish humbucker tone. I have no idea what he did with the "out of phase" thing--All I wanted was a coil tap, but it's just crazy. I emailed Schecter and DiMarzio for some wiring schemes to help him out (he rarely deals with DiMarzio and never deals with Schecter). But I'm sorely confused; he's a fantastic, well known luthier and I've seen his work before. It's always been great.
Maybe it's something that I could work on myself? First off, I suck at soldering so that's out of the question. I'd rather have him or someone else do it. The pickups are rather close to the strings, so my guess is that MIGHT have something to do with it?
I just need some suggestions. I'm still sorta stumped as to why it sounds like crap.

dont take anything to that guy if he made such a mistake

what are ur pot values

and usually for coil tapping u have to have a push pull volume pot, usually a higher value then the tone
and lets say u got a 1 meg push pull pot, pushed is always bridged humbcuking usually, and pulled out is one coil this is even the free digagrm for coil taking on the dimarzio site

in this case it would be a value of 1 meg for the volume and 500k tone

and wow, i gotta say every tech i have went to knew what all wiring color coding was about before i even gave it to them take it to a trusted guy, i dont even know who woul dinstall coil tap on tone

and if u have a 500k volume and a 250k push pull for your tone and coil tap...well......that just wont work properly and will definetely not sound right at all!!!!!!

having the humbucker tone resistance right on the coil, i dont know about that

u should have a 1 meg push pull volume and a 500k tone and a .022 cap on it, that is a standard for those kinds of pickups

they like higher pot values

waht was ur pot values in what order did he setup them>>

losgatosrg350dx · #10 03-05-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty Robb

If the guy didn't know how to wire them, all he had to do was go on the web and go to DiMarzio's website, it isn't rocket science. And I'm not sure if these were new pickups or not, but theres usually a little sheet inside each new one telling you all sorts of different wiring patterns. I agree with everyone else, take it someone else.

i agree walsy has a sheet labeling the hot and cold wires along with ground

that guy should have known better

i dont know any tech that had a guitar returned for a wiring issue, like a waste of time, and i pay about 35 per pup swap or even install when i take it to dan torress for some minor measuring and installatio n stuff when im outa time or working alot

markyperfection · #11 03-05-2008, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by losgatosrg350dx

i dont even know who woul dinstall coil tap on tone

schecter guitars tend to come like this, and so do ibanez js1000's. it's not a big deal. the switch part of the pot is isolated from the pot section, and can be or do whatever you want it to.

smitty, the wiring on this guitar (if the tone pot is a standard dpdt push-pull pot which i'm reasonably sure it is) would go like this:

one red wire from each pickup would go to one pole of the selector switch.
the green and the shield from each pickup would go to ground on the volume pot case.
on the pot, it'd look kinda like this. please excuse the crude drawing.

i don't recommend showing that to your guy and having him work off that haha but that's the way the wiring ought to go with two dimarzio's.

hope that helps.

nickysplendid · #12 03-05-2008, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcid

Learn to solder. If that's out of the question, just let him fix it but be more specific about what you want. Dont just say "wire it like it was". Any tech worth a sht can wire pickups regardless of who makes them.

agreed - learn to solder - u'll never look back.

losgatosrg350dx · #13 03-05-2008, 04:23 AM

sorry for the sp errors

Smitty · #14 03-05-2008, 09:45 PM

Good points everyone. And thanks for that wiring diagram. I'm almost positive he just wired it like the Seymours, as in same colors. I told him to wire it like the Seymours were, so, it really is my fault. He's a fantastic luthier, and a well-respected relic-er. I've seen his work before and he's great, so I really think it was a communication breakdown. But I'm going to show him that diagram, even though it's crude. Everything's going to be very straight this time--and hey, it's free because he did it wrong. I really can't lose.
smitty

By the way, he does this for a living. It's not like he's amateur.
klhcustomrelics is his website.

**elcid** · #15 03-05-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty

Good points everyone. And thanks for that wiring diagram. I'm almost positive he just wired it like the Seymours, as in same colors. I told him to wire it like the Seymours were, so, it really is my fault. He's a fantastic luthier, and a well-respected relic-er. I've seen his work before and he's great, so I really think it was a communication breakdown. But I'm going to show him that diagram, even though it's crude. Everything's going to be very straight this time--and hey, it's free because he did it wrong. I really can't lose.
smitty

If it was really your fault like you said earlier in the thread, how can it be him who did it wrong?