pickups for filling mids?

[power freak]

I recently got my steinberger, I am totally loving it but I have one problem with it, namely the EMGs. I don't get on with them at all, they sound to fake and the sound is way too bright and sterile. Not to mention the clean tones.

The tones I aim for are far from bright, I try and get ridof "fizz" in my distorted sound all the time. I also love a really smooth sound, without much "crunch" on the distorted tones. I also like the bass quite tight as well. A focussed tone that has lots of clarity is very important to me. In my clean playing I tend to like a totally clean "sparkling" sound, but I tend to leave the mids quite high unlike most other people do on there clean tones. I also increase the bass a tad but I don't like the bass to be flabby or out of control in anyway.

I guess if you are using agraphic EQ then a frown would probably be the overall shape of the tone.

As I mentioned earlier the pickup(s) will be going in a steinberger its a GM with I presume alder body with maple cap. As with nearly all steinbergers the mids aren't as prominent as in other guitars so i would like to get rid of that as much as possible.

Some of the tones I like are:
-Later Santana tones
-Holdsworth
-Larry Carlton type fusion tones
-Scott Henderson when he was playing with tribal tech.
-Eric Johnson's tone when he plays his more "rocky" fusion tunes

The pickup combination is SSH, with the humbucker in the bridge (duh!) I would like all the single coils to be hum cancelling if possible! But I don't want a humbucking tone, a P90 type tone would be very nice or telecaster type tone is also good. (I generally get on with most single coils) At the moment I am thinking of these pickups:

Neck:
Virtual Vintage Solo
Cool Rails (duncan)

Middle:
Same options as neck

Bridge:
Dimarzio Norton
Duncan custom custom

Is there anything else I should look at? I am not biased towards any brand be them boutique, duncans, dimarzios as long as they aren't EMGs or active.

Thanks in advance.

[Drew]

the Tone Zone comes to mind, as an incredibly mid-heavy pickup...

[power freak]

Originally Posted by Drew

the Tone Zone comes to mind, as an incredibly mid-heavy pickup...

I find the Tone Zone too bass heavy for my tastes, thats why I thought Norton? I thought that would be in between The Fred and Tone Zone.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I will be using a Marshall DSL and Laney LC15. Although both will be modded quite heavily. The DSL is half way there, I have re-biased the pre-amp to get less distortion and to cut more treble from my sound. I have also added a 5751 in V2 so that the clean channel is more sparkling and the distortion channel is a little less aggressive, the PI is now a 12AT7 which has got rid of a lot of the crunch that I don't like. Lastly I have also added negative fdedback to add speaker damping and make the whole amp "tighter" feeling. I am also going to modify the power supply to aid this. And obviously modify the tone stack. On the LC15 I think I am going to pull the whole circuit out and make my own custom amp. I think I will stick to the tried and tested Vox AC15 output stage and modify it slightly. The pre-amp will probably "Mark" based.

[toshiro]

How thick do you want it to be?

Couple others to think about:

Breed(mid high): Little bit thicker/warmer than the Norton.

Super3(very high gain): Similar in tone to the Breed but much much hotter.

[pinto79]

I've become quite partial to the Duncan JB. Mids jump out, as do harmonics and it's quite smooth.

for a good single tone that is without noise, try a Vintage Rails. You will probably find that the Cool Rails too vintage humbucker-ish as that is what they are designed to be.

[power freak]

Thanks guys I'll look into them.

[whatshisname]

I think a Duncan JB would be perfect for your needs.

[Drew]

um, you don't bias preamps, bro.

Apparently, the TZ is far less bass-heavy as you back it off, so if you set it lower (i.e- like you'd have to to level the volume between it and the singles ) you should be fine. I haven't done anything akin to actual measurements, but it seems a lot more "open" and organic when you lower it a bit, in my experience...

[Drew]

The problem with the JB is that's a VERY bright pickup. It's supposed to be pretty-near orgasmic in mahogany, but in alder under a maple cap... you've got more treble than you need there, especially if you're going for holdsworth, santana, and EJ.

Another thing to note is that the first two guys are both known for being Mesa players, and while Johnson isn't, I agree with you- I'd say a Mark-series is about the quickest way to his tone you're going to find in a single package. Are you sure a Marshall is the right amp for you? I owned a TSL that I sold for my Nomad for the same reasons- I wanted soemthing smoother, withoput that sizzling "crunch" in the upper frequencies.

Before you go overboard with pickups, run down to your local mesa dealer and plug into a Nomad (vintage mode) or a Mark-IV. You may find the EMG's actually work quite well with the right amp.

-D

[power freak]

Originally Posted by Drew

um, you don't bias preamps, bro.

Apparently, the TZ is far less bass-heavy as you back it off, so if you set it lower (i.e- like you'd have to to level the volume between it and the singles ) you should be fine. I haven't done anything akin to actual measurements, but it seems a lot more "open" and organic when you lower it a bit, in my experience...

You do bias pre-amps, however you must take out the existing cathode and anode resistors to do so, I changed the plate or anode loads so that I can get the most output with the least amount of clipping. The cathode resistors in the stock circuit are designed to give an un-linear voltage swing and more clipping so I switched those out for less distortion.

Next I am going to attenuate the high-end frequencies a whole lot more to get rid of the "crunch" sound, if that doesn't work I'll have to do some more modding, namely moving the tone-stack around. There is a lot of filtering in this particular marshall, and the main difference between it and a Mark pre-amp (except for all the bells and whistles the Mark has) is the position of the tone stack, so if I find away to move it I can get a semi-mark sound out of it.

As you can see I am a bit of an electronics geek!

Anyways, I looked around at the JB. It is a bit bright for me (I tried it in an alder neck thru guitar with floyd rose.) But I have found that the Holdsworth signature pickup is just a JB with alnico 2 magnets and dual screw pole pieces! Still I think I will stick to one of the other pickups mentioned.

I have also tried the EMGs through a Koch Twintone, its an amazing amp. It did sound better than my Marshall but I still didn't like th EMG-ness of the sound.

[machinediva]

Originally Posted by toshiro

How thick do you want it to be?

Couple others to think about:

Breed(mid high): Little bit thicker/warmer than the Norton.

Super3(very high gain): Similar in tone to the Breed but much much hotter.

yep, I was going to say Breed too...

p-freak, I suggest to check out this heavy breed user: www.magnusolsson.com
those pick-ups are really mid, mid and more mid!

[JohnnyGuitarCA]

Originally Posted by power freak

I recently got my steinberger, I am totally loving it but I have one problem with it, namely the EMGs. I don't get on with them at all, they sound to fake and the sound is way too bright and sterile. Not to mention the clean tones.

The tones I aim for are far from bright, I try and get ridof "fizz" in my distorted sound all the time. I also love a really smooth sound, without much "crunch" on the distorted tones. I also like the bass quite tight as well. A focussed tone that has lots of clarity is very important to me. In my clean playing I tend to like a totally clean "sparkling" sound, but I tend to leave the mids quite high unlike most other people do on there clean tones. I also increase the bass a tad but I don't like the bass to be flabby or out of control in anyway.

I guess if you are using agraphic EQ then a frown would probably be the overall shape of the tone.

As I mentioned earlier the pickup(s) will be going in a steinberger its a GM with I presume alder body with maple cap. As with nearly all steinbergers the mids aren't as prominent as in other guitars so i would like to get rid of that as much as possible.

Some of the tones I like are:
-Later Santana tones
-Holdsworth
-Larry Carlton type fusion tones
-Scott Henderson when he was playing with tribal tech.
-Eric Johnson's tone when he plays his more "rocky" fusion tunes

The pickup combination is SSH, with the humbucker in the bridge (duh!) I would like all the single coils to be hum cancelling if possible! But I don't want a humbucking tone, a P90 type tone would be very nice or telecaster type tone is also good. (I generally get on with most single coils) At the moment I am thinking of these pickups:

Neck:
Virtual Vintage Solo
Cool Rails (duncan)

Middle:
Same options as neck

Bridge:
Dimarzio Norton
Duncan custom custom

Is there anything else I should look at? I am not biased towards any brand be them boutique, duncans, dimarzios as long as they aren't EMGs or active.

Thanks in advance.

Virtual VIntage Heavy Blues in Neck and Middle
Air Zone in Bridge

Good luck!