Severe volume drop in 2,4

[satrianifan4life]

Hey guys, Im having a major problem out of my S420. I had evos put in by a luthier and now I get a severe volume drop in positions 2 and 4 of the switch. I cant play it clean as its too bad. I know how to wire and Ive tried every combination as per the instructions that came with the evos. Is it a bad switch?? Thanks guys

[Vim Fuego]

Does it sound very thin and "plinky" in pos 2 and 4 as well as quiet? If so then the Evos may be out of phase with the single coil. The first thing is to reverse the wires on the middle pickup, usually red and white, just swap them over.
If that is better, then you need to check that now there isn't lots of hum in pos 2 and 4. If there is, let me know and I'll tell you what to do about it...
Jim

[Typhonian]

Originally Posted by Vim Fuego

If that is better, then you need to check that now there isn't lots of hum in pos 2 and 4. If there is, let me know and I'll tell you what to do about it...
Jim

Hi Jim,

My guitar has Breeds and I had the same problem. I swapped the wires as you said and it sounds much better now, but now it hums a bit when in position 2 or 4. It's very low, very hard to notice even with high gain, but it's there. What can I do now?

[satrianifan4life]

Thanks Jim. Yea thats exactly it. thin and plunky. Ill swap the wires on the sc tomorrow and let you know

[Vim Fuego]

Originally Posted by Typhonian

Hi Jim,

My guitar has Breeds and I had the same problem. I swapped the wires as you said and it sounds much better now, but now it hums a bit when in position 2 or 4. It's very low, very hard to notice even with high gain, but it's there. What can I do now?

OK, this is actually more difficult! In positions 2 and 4 you should be voicing a pair of coils that act like a humbucker. That means the coils should be reverse wound with respect to each other, one clockwise, one anticlockwise (counterclockwise) *and* the magnets should be reversed, one north up, one south up . Reversing the coils makes everything including the hum cancel, reversing the magnets makes the signals add up again.
The easy option is to make sure the other coil is used when the humbucker is *tapped* The problem is that will mean you'll use the coil on the outside, closest to the bridge in tapped mode instead of the inside one.
Here's the original circuit if you use the VLX91 switch

Full size - http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3378/...5dbe8e97_o.gif

Here's the change

Full size - http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2445/...492c4cc2_o.gif
Note you need to move the ground point on the switch. And you'll get the outside coils but no hum.

For the other type of switch:
Original

Full size - http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2478/...afae5779_o.gif

Here's the change

Full size - http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3641/...28b7f23c_o.gif

Phew! If you do that and want the inside coils used instead of outside, the just turn the humbuckers round!
Jim

[Typhonian]

The Breed in the neck sounds great with the conductor close to the neck, like an Air Norton. Even the output appears to be lower that way. If I turn it around, it will sound like a fat and dark PAF Pro.

I have a D-Sonic that should be arriving soon, and they say it's not easy to install it with the polepieces facing the bridge. This means all the wires will have to be swapped again and the Breed in the neck will require more wiring changes. All I know is that the Breed in the bridge has to go because it sounds too normal! Should have listened to Kennydoe.

Edit:

The explanation is complicated, but the schematics for the original switch show a single change. Is it that simple?

[Vim Fuego]

Originally Posted by Typhonian

The explanation is complicated, but the schematics for the original switch show a single change. Is it that simple?

I do have a tendency to over describe things....
Essentially you just need to select the other coil when tapping the humbucker. The easiest change is just one wire, move the tap connection on the switch from the pot ground to signal. It's the easiest wiring change but has the disadvantage that you may need to rotate the pickups.

As for the D-sonic, it may be ok if you're lucky, if not live with the outside coils or the hum, whichever you prefer!
Jim

[Typhonian]

Fuego,

Now after the wire change it sounds like I have a full humbucker working with the middle pickup in positions 2 and 4, and it still hums very low.

[Vim Fuego]

Sounds like the coil tap is not working, have you connected the wire to the correct place on the switch?
What you're trying to do is change the coil tap so the the tap wires are switched to the signal rather than ground. remove the tap connection on the switch that goes to ground and connect it to an available signal connection. I've illustrtrated it going to another contact on the switch but you could use the right hand lug of the volume pot (in the diagram) if that's easier.
BTW. Which is the correct diagram for you?
Jim

[Typhonian]

I'm using the second diagram for the original switch and did exactly as you've shown. Things match perfectly. The original wire is black (the blue one that's supposed to be switched). It hums VERY low in 2 and 4, and slightly louder in 3 but that's expected.

I've tested the pickups using a screwdriver while changing from 1 to 5, and in 2 and 4, it definately selects both coils from the bridge pickup plus middle or full neck plus middle.

[Vim Fuego]

OK last resort, tap(hit) the poles for both coils in position 1 and switch to 2 and see if you notice any difference in the hits between the coils. I can't see anything obvious, and don't forget that when you hit the poles of a coil tapped humbucker you would expect to hear something from both coils as both sets of poles are connected to the same magnet but the coil tapped poles should be a bit quieter.
Maybe the coil taps are working correctly but the sound is not as you expect as you've changed which coils are tapped and some pickups have unequal coils?
If I come up with anything I'll let you know...
Jim

[toneboy]

If you using a plain ol' single coil (even the Evo one), you're going to get a volume drop in positions 2 and 4 - that's the way it's designed. Not to mention the fact that any combination of single coils is going to produce less volume than the combined, humbucking coils of higher output pickups like the Evos. The PGMs (e.g. with PAF Pros and the Jem single coil) do the same thing.

As far as hum in positions 2 and 4, you're going to get a little of that too unless the coils used are exactly the same. Even if (2) pickup coils are RWRP (reverse wound and reverse polarity), unless they are identical in every other respect (same # of windings, same gauge of wire (for the windings), same magnet strength), they will not "buck" all the "hum". Even some Dimarzio humbuckers (e.g. like the Tone Zone) do not "buck" all the "hum" because they have (2) slightly different coils.

Dimarzio uses a technique they patented call "dual resonance" which uses (2) coils that are slightly different from each other to get a sound from the pickup that would not be possible otherwise. Pickups that use this technique will refer to Patent #4501185 in their description.

[Typhonian]

Originally Posted by Vim Fuego

OK last resort, tap(hit) the poles for both coils in position 1 and switch to 2 and see if you notice any difference in the hits between the coils. I can't see anything obvious, and don't forget that when you hit the poles of a coil tapped humbucker you would expect to hear something from both coils as both sets of poles are connected to the same magnet but the coil tapped poles should be a bit quieter.
Maybe the coil taps are working correctly but the sound is not as you expect as you've changed which coils are tapped and some pickups have unequal coils?
If I come up with anything I'll let you know...
Jim

2 and 4 sound more like single-coils than humbuckers, so I think it's working the way it should be.

In 2, it hums a bit louder than 4, but both are less noticeable than 3. Before the blue wire mod, 2, 3 and 4 had the same amount of hum, very annoying.

I tapped the coils in 1 and 2 and the popping was a bit louder in 1, but both coils sounded the same. I was expecting the outer coils in 2 or 4 to be quieter.

So, which way should I keep the neck pickup in order to have the inner coil working in position 4? The black cable is towards the neck now and it's hard to find out which coil is working because the popping noise when tapping the magnets is the same.

If you using a plain ol' single coil (even the Evo one), you're going to get a volume drop in positions 2 and 4 - that's the way it's designed. Not to mention the fact that any combination of single coils is going to produce less volume than the combined, humbucking coils of higher output pickups like the Evos. The PGMs (e.g. with PAF Pros and the Jem single coil) do the same thing.

As far as hum in positions 2 and 4, you're going to get a little of that too unless the coils used are exactly the same. Even if (2) pickup coils are RWRP (reverse wound and reverse polarity), unless they are identical in every other respect (same # of windings, same gauge of wire (for the windings), same magnet strength), they will not "buck" all the "hum". Even some Dimarzio humbuckers (e.g. like the Tone Zone) do not "buck" all the "hum" because they have (2) slightly different coils.

Dimarzio uses a technique they patented call "dual resonance" which uses (2) coils that are slightly different from each other to get a sound from the pickup that would not be possible otherwise. Pickups that use this technique will refer to Patent #4501185 in their description.

The Breed (neck) and D-Sonic are far from being symmetrical and I think that would explain the slight humming in positions 2 and 4. The single-coil in the middle is old and stock.

[satrianifan4life]

Hey Jim check this out. I solved the problem. The guy who wired it for me actually soldered the black and white wires together and then to the front poles on the switch and the greens to the rear poles. I just unsoldered the b/ws and wired the greens up. I got a HUGE boost in sound and the thing absolutely rocks the house now! Thanks man, because if you hadnt told me to look for that i never would have opened my eyes enough to look for that. Ive never wired dimarzios before so it was foreign to me.