Sustain on high frets

[Orochimaru]

I recently played a Xiphos and I noticed the sustain is very low on high frets. Also the sound gets thiner. The same problem I noticed on other guitars I played.

Is there something that can be done?

Do you know why?

Is it something about pups?

[BigPhi84]

The pickups are too hot and they pull at the strings constantly. When you fret high up on the neck, you in effect shorten the string length. The magnet pull is so strong on that small amount of string, that it prematurely cuts off the string's natural vibration and note production.

The only thing you could do is lower the pickups.

[brothersnowgone]

Or get pick-ups with a less powerful magnetic pull

[Foulacy]

Not necessarily the pickups. Shorter string length means it will vibrate for a shorter period of time... Pickups are probably irrelevant.

[GuitarBizarre]

Agreed. I think the magnet pull 'problem' is overstated by a great number of people.

[Orochimaru]

On Xiphos the pups might be the problem because both pickups have an output higher than 380 mV. D Activator neck is 385 which means a ton of output. for a neck pup.

Then I have to add the fact that my S320 has more sustain on high frets.

Both guitars are mahogany body, the Xiphos has the neckthru advantage.

In Xiphos I think pups might be the problem.

I have to admit that even in S320 the sustain is a bit lower in high frets but not that much as in Xiphos.

Thanks a lot guys!

[Matheau]

Originally Posted by Orochimaru

On Xiphos the pups might be the problem because both pickups have an output higher than 380 mV. D Activator neck is 385 which means a ton of output. for a neck pup.

Those are output values, not a measure of magnetic field strength. The exact same magnets can give different output values depending on other factors in pick-up construction.

[Orochimaru]

Do you think a pickup with high output value can have a low magnetic field?

[Matheau]

Originally Posted by Orochimaru

Do you think a pickup with high output value can have a low magnetic field?

Yes, raising the magnetic field is only one way of increasing pickup output. Putting more turns in the wire also increases the output of the pickup, not to mention it is fairly common for active pickups to have lower outputs from the magnetic pickup than a passive pickup, despite the fact they usually have higher outputs after going through the active circuitry.

Output can't be used to gauge relative field strength on a guitar pickup unless you know for a fact that the pickups are identical in every way except for magnetic strength. It is a factor, but it isn't an exclusive one and you can overall raise output without touching that value.

[Orochimaru]

Originally Posted by Matheau

Yes, raising the magnetic field is only one way of increasing pickup output. Putting more turns in the wire also increases the output of the pickup, not to mention it is fairly common for active pickups to have lower outputs from the magnetic pickup than a passive pickup, despite the fact they usually have higher outputs after going through the active circuitry.

Output can't be used to gauge relative field strength on a guitar pickup unless you know for a fact that the pickups are identical in every way except for magnetic strength. It is a factor, but it isn't an exclusive one and you can overall raise output without touching that value.

any coil acts like a magnet when plugged in. Putting more turns in the wire/coil ALWAYS increases the magnetic field. My brother is finished the University of Electronics. He is a master specialist in tube guitar amplifiers. He made an experiment and proved me that.

Whatever you do, a higher output ALWAYS means a higher magnetic field NO MATTER WHAT.

I don't consider the active pups here because I think they ALL are a bad choice unless you are a deaf person. My bro showed me the problem with those but I don't have enough time to explain.

[jonboyuk]

I have the same problem on my Jem (555). Is it because i have a 555? lol (I'm in the process of rewiring, re-speccing, lo-proing, it all though, will this help?)

[Orochimaru]

The best thing you can do is lowering the pups. You have to find the right distance from the strings and to set the pups according to that. The Evolution pups on that Jem 555 are really high output.

I worked on detuning, now I use 11's strings and 1.5 steps down on my S320 guitar. Also I use DiMarzio Humbucker From Hell in the neck and DiMarzio Evolution in the bridge. Humbucker From Hell is pretty close to the strings while the Evolution is pretty low. I have a huge amount of sustain on my guitar right now. Also the sound is unbelievable. It kicks ass, any kind of ass.

[Orochimaru]

Well man there is something about the length of the string in the sustain stuff. Whatever you do there will always be a little bit of sustain loss when riding up to the higher frets. That amount of sustain loss can be compensated with distortion.

[Vim Fuego]

Originally Posted by Orochimaru

any coil acts like a magnet when plugged in. Putting more turns in the wire/coil ALWAYS increases the magnetic field. My brother is finished the University of Electronics. He is a master specialist in tube guitar amplifiers. He made an experiment and proved me that.

Whatever you do, a higher output ALWAYS means a higher magnetic field NO MATTER WHAT.

I don't consider the active pups here because I think they ALL are a bad choice unless you are a deaf person. My bro showed me the problem with those but I don't have enough time to explain.

This is a dangerous mis-statement, for a coil to act like a magnet you'd need to put a current through it! (I'm ignoring Lenz's law here as I believe the effects in this case is negligible) A hotter pickup doesn't necessarily need a stronger magnet. (I suspect the magnetic field above the pole pieces is stronger in single coils than humbuckers for example, as they're more famous for causing string pull)
Oh and I'm not deaf and I doubt neither are all people who like active pickups!

And one more thing... I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Theoretical Physics not that that makes any difference!
Jim

[Matheau]

Originally Posted by Orochimaru

any coil acts like a magnet when plugged in. Putting more turns in the wire/coil ALWAYS increases the magnetic field. My brother is finished the University of Electronics. He is a master specialist in tube guitar amplifiers. He made an experiment and proved me that.

Whatever you do, a higher output ALWAYS means a higher magnetic field NO MATTER WHAT.

I don't consider the active pups here because I think they ALL are a bad choice unless you are a deaf person. My bro showed me the problem with those but I don't have enough time to explain.

Being a specialist in tube guitar amplifiers doesn't mean he knows all that much about guitar pick ups, the two work completely differently. I'm not going to bad mouth your brother, because for all I know you just misinterpreted something he said because with a lot of stuff he probably learned about, that is generally how things work, but that is because guitar pick ups aren't a very common employment of electronics. Instrumentation design might also not be part of his course work, depending on his specialty, but guitar pick ups are probably closer to that than most electronics applications.

Originally Posted by Vim Fuego

This is a dangerous mis-statement, for a coil to act like a magnet you'd need to put a current through it! (I'm ignoring Lenz's law here as I believe the effects in this case is negligible) A hotter pickup doesn't necessarily need a stronger magnet. (I suspect the magnetic field above the pole pieces is stronger in single coils than humbuckers for example, as they're more famous for causing string pull)
Oh and I'm not deaf and I doubt neither are all people who like active pickups!

And one more thing... I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Theoretical Physics not that that makes any difference!
Jim

Yup, without actually putting current into the wires, they aren't functioning as a magnet. The whole point of the wires is to read the magnetic field, not to generate one. The magnet generates the field and the wires read the magnetic flux. If you were generating a field with a current through the wire, you wouldn't really get any sort of usable signal.

Of course, I am going to graduate with a Bachelor of Science in Chemical Engineering in May, and I spent my first year and a half as an Electrical Engineering Major, so what do I know?