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  #16  
Old 04-23-2008, 09:42 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


We aren't overly strict with our children. We are incredibly firm, however We make the rules as lax as we can so that they aren't stiffled, and have a chance to grow within them, but we don't break them. I think so far we're doing fine, but you never know what tomorrow will bring. We don't pretend to be saints to our kids either; they know we're not perfect and that we're learning to parent as they are learning to do everything that comes their way. We do let them see that there is always a point to our actions though, so that they understand we don't use our inherent authority to make capricious decisions affecting them. We take the opportunities presented to us to help them both understand our decisions, and the decision making process itself. Hopefully that's sinking in to the point it will help them in the future, but you never know. Hopefully
One other point here is that all three of my daughters (and my son) will have their black belts before they start dating, and two will likely be 2nd Dan. So, if they decide they are going to go along with something foolish, off they'll go and we won't be able to do anything about it. If one of their boyfriends decides they're going to do something one of the girls doesn't want to do however, that boyfriend will be in for a bit of a surprise. The girls will always do what they want, but they'll be in a much better position to not do what they don't want to do as well. That was very important to me.
  #17  
Old 04-23-2008, 10:20 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


As a teenager myself (Eighteen), it's my belief that parents need to teach their sons to respect women more, and that parents need to teach their daughters to both be safe and hold high standards for who they date. I will say though, you definitely have a lot to be afraid of as your child enters high school, 99% of the boys there are only after one thing, which I'm sure you could take a wild guess at.

Last edited by quiksilverdew; 04-23-2008 at 10:21 AM. Reason: 18 in numbers made a smily face
  #18  
Old 04-23-2008, 10:26 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


At 18 (it is the 8 and the closing parenthesis quik), I certainly knew what I wanted: drums and guitars

Quickest way to p*ssy ever!

I'm half joking
  #19  
Old 04-23-2008, 12:09 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


When i was 18 i wasn't interested in girls. I played guitar until the late hours with my friends and was always busy with music and fun stuff like going to the movies.

I'm pretty sure that i am not an exception
  #20  
Old 04-23-2008, 12:19 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by DEADTUNES666 View Post
I have a 15 year old daughter (16 in August), a 9 year old son, a 5 year old daughter, and a 3 year old daughter...Basically the full sh!t platter (in a good way)

The oldest is blossoming in many wonderful, not so wonderful, sad, depressing and good ways. Again, basically the full sh!t platter...

We keep a tight reign on things, or as much as possible while still allowing a certain freedom to a budding young woman. This is both scary, and necessary. We moved in Aug 07 to an area that is much safer, and slower in terms of living life. This was the year before our daughter was to start High School...

She runs track, has some questionable girl friends, some stand up girl friends but no boyfriends that we know of. Her grades are good but have slipped from the constant honor roll of the years preceding this one. When she goes anywhere we speak to the parents to make sure she is where she says! We much prefer her here at our house and try to be accommodating to her friends. We expect more from our children but not unrealistically. I figure expect less and they'll give us less...

The oldest is going through the normal teen traumas and we have been to a therapist so everyone can see the others' side. It's a bit pricey but worth it in the end.

Everyone has a daily chore list and is expected to pull their weight, I feel this gives them not only a sense of belonging, but accomplishment as well. They are important to the well being of the family and without all of us doing our part we cease to function properly. We also remind them of their worth from time to time...

My wife and are both victims of sexual abuse from when we were children, because our parents weren't there!! We have never used baby sitters and do not allow anyone else to watch our children. One of us is always there. The exception has been our parents but only on the rarest of occasions. Having children meant the world to us and we do not want to fvck it up. Our ultimate goal is to not have our children molested, killed, drugged out, or pregnant before they turn 18.

One of the inspiring quotes for me before we had kids was this one...

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children, is to love their Mother!"

We have sacrificed a lot in order to keep our family safe, but what can I say my wife is the greatest woman I have ever known and has always had my deepest respect. Our children are the product of our love for each other....There is nothing I would not sacrifice for any of them...

Sorry for the rambling...
While I respect how hard you are trying... this sounds exactly like my childhood. Sure, I was a virgin bride who dated a guy for 6 years before I married him and all that going to church three times a week yadda yadda... parents always calling parents and checking out who I hung out with. The sad reality is my teenage years were pretty much the lowest point of my 31 years to date. I moved out of my parents house two weeks after graduation and never looked back. I haven't even spoken to my father in over three years because he is a narrow minded, control freak who will never accept me as an adult who can take care of my own life. I tried for years to get him to see my point of view and after divorcing my first husband and getting as far away from that small town as possible, I just got tired of having the same argument with him over and over again. Better to just ignore each other than to keep fighting. This daddy's little girl grew up and even after years of trying to come to terms still has terrible daddy issues.

My advice... keep the expectations of grades, honesty, good hygiene and stuff like that... But let them live life. Don't shelter them so much that they resent you for not having a normal childhood.
  #21  
Old 04-23-2008, 12:46 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


I graduated high school in "88". We were proud to be the last generation before AIDS really hit. So there was a lot of drugs, and a lot of sex. In and out of school, so if a kid wants to have sex, smoke, drink or do drugs they will find a way.

I was molested before 9, smoked cigarettes and chewed tobacco before 10, smoked pot, huffed and inhaled freon before 11, tried hard drugs (acid, coke) before 14, lost my virginity at 14, frequently used harder drugs (heroin, LSD, crank) before 18 and was lost in a haze of depression and self loathing when all I needed was for a parent to give a sh!t...I continued to use and abuse hard drugs for years had an attempted suicide stopped talking to my father for 10 years. Had to do heavy therapy to repair the parental relationship with them for them to understand how little guidance I got...We are past that and my father is dead his ashes in my house. My Mother lives 125 miles away, speaks to my children every Sunday and comes up to stay about 1 weekend every other month.

I can't help thinking how my life would be different if they had cared enough to find the strength to be parents!!

My parents were so wrapped up in their own B.S. that they couldn't effectively manage to be parents..."A child left to make their own choices will 9 times out of ten make the wrong one." We are there to be parents not their friends...it is a painful role at times, though sometimes it is rewarding beyond belief...
  #22  
Old 04-23-2008, 12:47 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


My daughter fights to do things her own way, and she really does have a lot of freedom, but it is within the safe confines of what we believe to be right. She has acknowledged how great it is to have us care about her so much, although sometimes it does suck!! Like I said before, therapy has helped immensely for us to all understand where we're at in life...Some of her friends have ultra strict parents and are on a bad road, some of her friends have very little, or no guidance from parents and are on a bad road.

Could we ask for a better 15 year old? Yes!
Could she ask for better parents? Yes!
Are we doing what we feel to be our absolute best? Yes!
We have an awesome daughter, and aside from the normal attitude, moments of teenage angst, and laziness, there is none of the instability we see from some of her friends!

We have one shot to do all we can. In 20 years if our children tell us we were too smothering and I was a controlling @sshole, at least I can say, I did everything to keep my children safe, and we were there taking the responsibility of parenting seriously. Of all the things that will be said about me, that one will be okay!

With parenting we all have to do what we feel comfortable with doing...
  #23  
Old 04-23-2008, 01:02 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sable View Post
I was a virgin bride who dated a guy for 6 years before I married him and all that going to church three times a week yadda yadda... parents always calling parents and checking out who I hung out with. The sad reality is my teenage years were pretty much the lowest point of my 31 years to date. I moved out of my parents house two weeks after graduation and never looked back. I haven't even spoken to my father in over three years because he is a narrow minded, control freak who will never accept me as an adult who can take care of my own life. I tried for years to get him to see my point of view and after divorcing my first husband and getting as far away from that small town as possible, I just got tired of having the same argument with him over and over again. Better to just ignore each other than to keep fighting. This daddy's little girl grew up and even after years of trying to come to terms still has terrible daddy issues.
Sounds like you had parents who cared about your welfare but might be too close minded to accept you as an adult, or to express themselves to you in a verbal and emotional way. Therapy is never too late in coming, and might shed some much needed light for both of you...

My father never said he loved me until he was a week away from dying from an undetected cancer he'd had for 10 years. That was a good day for me

The high school years are not supposed to be the best in your life they are the educational stepping stone for you to be able to go to college.
So you can get the higher education that will insure your monetary success...If your best years happen between 14-18 you got gypped because normal life expectancy is like 75...Look to the future, you are not that scared little girl anymore. Make your life how you want it...
  #24  
Old 04-23-2008, 01:42 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


GilkyBear is right on the money, this is the same thing I have seen growing up.

People that harbor their kids only force them to do it and hide it which is even worse!
  #25  
Old 04-23-2008, 05:24 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by DEADTUNES666 View Post
Sounds like you had parents who cared about your welfare but might be too close minded to accept you as an adult, or to express themselves to you in a verbal and emotional way. Therapy is never too late in coming, and might shed some much needed light for both of you...

My father never said he loved me until he was a week away from dying from an undetected cancer he'd had for 10 years. That was a good day for me

The high school years are not supposed to be the best in your life they are the educational stepping stone for you to be able to go to college.
So you can get the higher education that will insure your monetary success...If your best years happen between 14-18 you got gypped because normal life expectancy is like 75...Look to the future, you are not that scared little girl anymore. Make your life how you want it...
I can appreciate where you are coming from and seriously I wish things could be that simple for me. Unfortunately, my dad didn't give two sheets about me or my older sister. He is just a control freak. My older sister moved out before her senior year in school and has only had about 1/2 dozen conversations with him in 17 years. He is incredibly manipulative and generally an arse. He has a new family now with three young kids and he's pretty much just doing the same things to them as he did to us. Fortunately those kids aren't stuck in a messy divorce or being used to guilt trip their sister and mother. I hope they make it through his BS unscathed, but I won't hold my breath.

It sounds like you are at least trying to understand your kids, but try not to make up for your own experience. Parenting is a balance between not making the same mistakes your parents made, and not going too far in the opposite direction.

Personally, I hope that I am more like my coworker and his wife when it is my turn to parent a teenager. They basically lay out there that whole sex thing and tell them that they will make a great many mistakes in their life, but getting pregnant or getting someone else pregnant is NOT going to be one of them. Either they abstain or they use protection, no ifs, ands, or buts. But at the same time you have to tell them that they aren't yet ready and even when they think they are ready, they probably aren't ready. As long as they can come to their parents and talk about things and know they won't be judged... that is what is important IMO.

I don't necessarily think 14-18 should be the best years of your life, but I can tell you that not having any experiences during that time that make it even memorable or enjoyable to think about isn't normal. People shouldn't wake up one day at 25 and think, I have never really lived my life or made any decisions for myself! Well, I guess that is okay if you are independently wealthy and can then take time off from all of the daily responsibility and just travel and experience life utterly unafraid.

But personally, I was forced to grow up at 10 and act like an adult the rest of my childhood. When my friends were sneaking out, making out, going to parties, taking trips, etc. I was at home studying to make straight As or practicing a musical instrument I had little interest in. I was expected to be my parents designated driver at 17. I was taught to fear anything that may have negative consequences. I can't tell you how many experiences I passed up because I was just too afraid to have anything bad happen to me.

I grew up in the era where they warned you off of sex at 12 with the whole you can get pregnant from oral sex and you will catch AIDS if you even kiss a guy. While we know that now to be completely untrue, as a 6th grader in 1988-89 it scared the crap out of me.

So yeah anyway... without telling my whole damn life story or anything, kids should be kids and taught to think for themselves and to make good choices and whatnot. But when they hit 16 or so, they are no longer little kids... they need to be given more room to make some mistakes, but at the same time be given love and support from their parents to help them learn from those mistakes. I don't think anyone would say it is okay to just turn them loose and let them do whatever... but at the same time, you can't treat them like they are 12 either. In two VERY short years, those kids will be going off to college or getting out on their own in the world. If they don't learn how to care for themselves and make decisions while they are in these few tender years, then they are more likely to screw up bigtime when they get a bit older.

One of my coworkers does everything for her two girls to the extent that her 22 year old can't even balance a checkbook and her 19 year old still wants mom to do her math assignments for college. They both still live at home and they do not intend to move out until they get married. It makes me very sad to see kids like that... They aren't stupid or anything... they are just utterly unable to do anything without mom's approval and help. They cannot make decisions about anything beyond what to wear (I swear the younger one still calls to ask her mom what she should eat for lunch).

You have to find the balance... and sometimes the hardest part is letting go of them a little and letting them make mistakes while still being there to help guide them when they need it.
  #26  
Old 04-23-2008, 11:56 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by GilkyBear View Post
In the military community, the strictest parents' daughters are 99% of the time pregnant by 15 or 16 years old.
You got that right. When I was overseas, the wildest girl was the base commander's (General's) daughter. She was 15 and was caught providing oral favors to an on-duty military policeman. Too much control leads to overcompensating rebellion from the teen.
  #27  
Old 04-24-2008, 03:32 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Ok. answer this question.

1. Do you have a daughter?
2. How old is she?
3. What is an acceptable age for her to be 'active' in your mind?

Meaning, if you don't want to control her, then you must be willing to let her make her own choices. But at some age you would still control her. You wouldn't want her getting involved with boys at 10 would you? So you would be controlling. Is there an age where you will pull back the control and let her get involved with boys all she wants, and as a non controlling parent, you'll accept her choices?

I suspect that parents with daughters will answer this question differently than non parents.

The concept of 'control' can be misunderstood. What form is the control? What is the purpose of the control? What is the motivation of the control?

Would you let you baby touch a hot stove so they could learn from their mistake and learn and grow from it? Would you let you kid do anything that could be life alterting and dangerous knowing the consequences could be profound so they could learn from it?

Not everyone is having sex. Sure a lot of kids are. Some with strict parents. I grew up in a passive home. Me and my siblings took advantage of the passive environment and got involved it all kinds of things. I wish I had a more stict home growing up. I have unbelievable skeletons that haunt me still. A lot of pain that could have easily been avoided with at least some guidance and a measure of strictness. If there is no moral standard, then the culture decides what is acceptable. And since our culture is commercially and sexually driven. Many things that seem acceptable, are not.
  #28  
Old 04-24-2008, 06:37 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Don't know if your "challenge" was to anyone in particular, so I'll answer:
1) Yes, I have two
2) 9 and 5
3) As soon as she's out of our house (i.e. independent in terms of money/education/self-esteem/all that)

My older daughter is free to make many decisions, and we provide feedback on those decisions. We do not give her full rein
  #29  
Old 04-24-2008, 07:43 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


There is a reason a child is considered a child until 18, and we are responsible for them until then...

There is such a thing as healthy control, but you have to know when to say when, and that is the most heart wrenching time to a parent who cares.

When my 15 year old was around 4 she came out of the bath in a towel, whipped the towel open and cried wee hah!! Turned around and ran back to Mommy who finished dressing her. For years I called her the "wee hah kid". I wish she could have stayed that cute innocent little girl, but we both knew she couldn't. Around 9 she became very aware of her body and forbid me from coming into the bathroom when she was showering. This was now Mommys' terrain...

We gave her the birds and the bees talk, as well as the drug and alcohol one, as soon as the school started discussing illegal narcotics. I gotta believe around 11...

We stress to them that every decision they make will affect their lives, not the lives of their parents!! All we want is for them to succeed and be happy...

So to answer the above question...

1) Yes, 3

2) 3, 5, 15

3) 18

She is allowed to have a boyfriend, but she has never had one, and informs us of when boys ask her out. She is very particular about what she wears and likewise it has made her more aware of who she hangs out with, including boys. On my advice, when she is asked out she is going to ask the young man to turn in a page on where he sees himself in 15 years. This will determine the intensity with which they feel her worth, their motivation to do something other than be a "guy", and their worthiness to her! We laughed about that one and I told her I wouldn't have done that when I was in High School because I was not looking to be all I could be, and there were plenty of fish in the sea...We'll see what happens...

To Silver Sable: I apologize if I commented out of turn. I meant it in the most positive and respectful of ways. There is no child that deserves less from their parents...
  #30  
Old 04-24-2008, 10:38 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


1. Yes
2. 14 16
3. Acceptable when married.


My daughters derserve nothing less than perfection. Like most thing in life, everything is a compromise. Since their is no perfect guy, I'd like them to fall for a guy with at least a high quality character. Hard working, full of integrity, and having God as the arbitor of right and wrong. But also at the top of the list, they should value my daughters enough to put their best interest first, meaning they should be willing to put my daughters purity and future ahead of their weenie. There is a story in the Bible about a man that that so loved a young lady, he worked for the father for 14 years to win her hand in marrige. I have a similar plan. My daughters have boys they are 'interested' in. Both are guitar players. Go figure. But I have both working for me. You can learn a lot about a guy on the job. How does he handle new and difficult task? How well does he take instruction? How does he handle 12 hours of hard work till 4am? Also, with them knowing me, as a man. They get to know that I don't toy with words. They will also know that I trust my daughters to make proper choices, but I am a clear and present danger if they let their weenies lead their actions. One of the boys I'm giving guitar lessons too as well. My daughters have a real and solid moral foundation. I believe they will make the right choices and will remain pure till their wedding nights. It's uncommon, but not unheard of, and not impossible. But if they choose to abandon their faith and get 'involved' innapproprietly with a guy, they will have to live with the consequences. I don't have them chained in the basement or anything like that. But they know why and what our moral boundries are. The rest is up to them.


I wish I had moral boundries when I was young.

Again, we do not create 'oppotunity'. Often, just the opportunity to get physical is enough to push you over the edge.
I was playing 'Keep your hands to yourself' and my 16 year old was singing it the other day. We were sitting at the kitchen table and her 18yo friend was over. She joked that that was Arin's (my daughter) theme song. It was great. My daughters friends are aware of her commitment purity, and she's unashamed of it.

If you don't have daughters, and are trying to use a few examples of how to parent. You have no clue. Examples of other parents failings are not guarentees. Not every teen is having sex, some people do marry as virgins and stay married forever. It's against the odds. But that's no reason to settle for less than the best for your daughter.

Last edited by Darin; 04-24-2008 at 10:47 AM.
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