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  #31  
Old 04-24-2008, 10:41 AM
Darin  is offline
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Re: Daughters and dating


My 'challenge' wasn't to anyone in paticular. Just wanted to sort out the reponders to categories of those that have daugthtars and have a heart wrenching interest in teens and dating. And those that don't.

Last edited by Darin; 04-24-2008 at 10:48 AM.
  #32  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:03 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post
But that's no reason to settle for less than the best for your daughter.
Or for a son, or ones self...

Though you and I walk a different path in life "D" we both want the same things for our kids. Responsible parenting is a great equalizer... Good luck always with yours...
  #33  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:47 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


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Originally Posted by Darin View Post
Imagine you own a pristine Chromeboy, and some teenager you don't really even know, that can't play in tune wants to borrow it for a "gig", which is a party at his friends house. Do you think you'd let him? The damage done to your Chromie cannot be undone. Ever. But hey, it's going to get scratched sometime anyway right?. Od you have a showroom 60's era Vette. And you neighbor boy wants to borrow it. He says he's only going to drive it slow. Do you trust him to keep his foot of the pedal when he's around his friends? I suspect that some people would hesitate at these things, yet still let some horn dog teenage boy date their daughter. The damage cannot ever be undone. Now with all that come personal responcibility on the daughters part. But as you guys know, boys will say ANYTHING IT TAKES. It's a fine line of protection, sheltering, freedom, liberty and resposibility. I don't think young couples should be 'active' before marrige. Creating opportunity for it is the first mistake.
Yes, but the key flaw in your analogy is that it's quite reasonable to keep a Chromeboy or a Vette mint forever, and not ever let it get 'scratched'. Of course, keeping your daughter locked up until she's 90 would be ridiculous.

Also, you are comparing her with objects.

Plus, you are viewing your daughter having relations with anybody in an awfully negative way, as 'damage'. I doubt it's as clear cut as "he wants kinky sex and she wants to study the bible". At worse, it'll be consensual, passionate and enjoyable for both, and, given your daughter's Christian upbringing, they'll just make out for a few hours.

Did you or your wife never have relations with people when you were her age?


I really think you should view her as less of 'your object' and more of an individual, who has the ability to make her own choices.

If you've brought her up properly she'll make them well.


I know it can be difficult; god knows what I'll be like if I have a daughter!!! However, trust that her upbringing stands her in good enough stead to make her own choices that you would (mostly) approve of.

Even if this guy does kiss your daughter, chances are she'll enjoy it and have fun!
  #34  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:54 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


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Originally Posted by Silver Sable View Post
I can appreciate where you are coming from and seriously I wish things could be that simple for me. Unfortunately, my dad didn't give two sheets about me or my older sister. He is just a control freak. My older sister moved out before her senior year in school and has only had about 1/2 dozen conversations with him in 17 years. He is incredibly manipulative and generally an arse. He has a new family now with three young kids and he's pretty much just doing the same things to them as he did to us. Fortunately those kids aren't stuck in a messy divorce or being used to guilt trip their sister and mother. I hope they make it through his BS unscathed, but I won't hold my breath.

It sounds like you are at least trying to understand your kids, but try not to make up for your own experience. Parenting is a balance between not making the same mistakes your parents made, and not going too far in the opposite direction.

Personally, I hope that I am more like my coworker and his wife when it is my turn to parent a teenager. They basically lay out there that whole sex thing and tell them that they will make a great many mistakes in their life, but getting pregnant or getting someone else pregnant is NOT going to be one of them. Either they abstain or they use protection, no ifs, ands, or buts. But at the same time you have to tell them that they aren't yet ready and even when they think they are ready, they probably aren't ready. As long as they can come to their parents and talk about things and know they won't be judged... that is what is important IMO.

I don't necessarily think 14-18 should be the best years of your life, but I can tell you that not having any experiences during that time that make it even memorable or enjoyable to think about isn't normal. People shouldn't wake up one day at 25 and think, I have never really lived my life or made any decisions for myself! Well, I guess that is okay if you are independently wealthy and can then take time off from all of the daily responsibility and just travel and experience life utterly unafraid.

But personally, I was forced to grow up at 10 and act like an adult the rest of my childhood. When my friends were sneaking out, making out, going to parties, taking trips, etc. I was at home studying to make straight As or practicing a musical instrument I had little interest in. I was expected to be my parents designated driver at 17. I was taught to fear anything that may have negative consequences. I can't tell you how many experiences I passed up because I was just too afraid to have anything bad happen to me.

I grew up in the era where they warned you off of sex at 12 with the whole you can get pregnant from oral sex and you will catch AIDS if you even kiss a guy. While we know that now to be completely untrue, as a 6th grader in 1988-89 it scared the crap out of me.

So yeah anyway... without telling my whole damn life story or anything, kids should be kids and taught to think for themselves and to make good choices and whatnot. But when they hit 16 or so, they are no longer little kids... they need to be given more room to make some mistakes, but at the same time be given love and support from their parents to help them learn from those mistakes. I don't think anyone would say it is okay to just turn them loose and let them do whatever... but at the same time, you can't treat them like they are 12 either. In two VERY short years, those kids will be going off to college or getting out on their own in the world. If they don't learn how to care for themselves and make decisions while they are in these few tender years, then they are more likely to screw up bigtime when they get a bit older.

One of my coworkers does everything for her two girls to the extent that her 22 year old can't even balance a checkbook and her 19 year old still wants mom to do her math assignments for college. They both still live at home and they do not intend to move out until they get married. It makes me very sad to see kids like that... They aren't stupid or anything... they are just utterly unable to do anything without mom's approval and help. They cannot make decisions about anything beyond what to wear (I swear the younger one still calls to ask her mom what she should eat for lunch).

You have to find the balance... and sometimes the hardest part is letting go of them a little and letting them make mistakes while still being there to help guide them when they need it.
Fantastic post.
  #35  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:55 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by DEADTUNES666 View Post
I have a 15 year old daughter (16 in August), a 9 year old son, a 5 year old daughter, and a 3 year old daughter...Basically the full sh!t platter (in a good way)

The oldest is blossoming in many wonderful, not so wonderful, sad, depressing and good ways. Again, basically the full sh!t platter...

We keep a tight reign on things, or as much as possible while still allowing a certain freedom to a budding young woman. This is both scary, and necessary. We moved in Aug 07 to an area that is much safer, and slower in terms of living life. This was the year before our daughter was to start High School...

She runs track, has some questionable girl friends, some stand up girl friends but no boyfriends that we know of. Her grades are good but have slipped from the constant honor roll of the years preceding this one. When she goes anywhere we speak to the parents to make sure she is where she says! We much prefer her here at our house and try to be accommodating to her friends. We expect more from our children but not unrealistically. I figure expect less and they'll give us less...

The oldest is going through the normal teen traumas and we have been to a therapist so everyone can see the others' side. It's a bit pricey but worth it in the end.

Everyone has a daily chore list and is expected to pull their weight, I feel this gives them not only a sense of belonging, but accomplishment as well. They are important to the well being of the family and without all of us doing our part we cease to function properly. We also remind them of their worth from time to time...

My wife and are both victims of sexual abuse from when we were children, because our parents weren't there!! We have never used baby sitters and do not allow anyone else to watch our children. One of us is always there. The exception has been our parents but only on the rarest of occasions. Having children meant the world to us and we do not want to fvck it up. Our ultimate goal is to not have our children molested, killed, drugged out, or pregnant before they turn 18.

One of the inspiring quotes for me before we had kids was this one...

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children, is to love their Mother!"

We have sacrificed a lot in order to keep our family safe, but what can I say my wife is the greatest woman I have ever known and has always had my deepest respect. Our children are the product of our love for each other....There is nothing I would not sacrifice for any of them...

Sorry for the rambling...
well said.what a nice guy,im touched.
  #36  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:56 AM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

Would you let you baby touch a hot stove so they could learn from their mistake and learn and grow from it? Would you let you kid do anything that could be life alterting and dangerous knowing the consequences could be profound so they could learn from it?
Darin, you have to accept that she probably WANTS to make out with this guy. It's NOT 'burning' her, 'scarring' her, or sinnning and going to hell.

It's just a bit of fun!!

I think you need to have a little more respect for her capacity as an individual.
  #37  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:01 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosa View Post
Darin,

I understand the point you are trying to make, and i think you can't really compare people with cars and guitars.

Damage will always occur and that's a good thing, because people make mistakes and learn from it. That's how you will become an adult.

Most people, even young teenage boys, DO have values and would never hurt your daughter or anyone else. People tend to want do the good thing so i have faith in mankind as a race.

Now, i do think it's a good thing to keep the "time alone thing" to a extreme minimum and especially at a young age like 16.

However, i think it's more important to teach your children good values so that when given the opportunity (and opportunities always occur) they can make the right choice. And not just about dating, but this goes for all things.

I understand your worries and feelings as a parent. Please don't let those feelings cloud your judgement and keep listening to your daughter and try to always maintain a dialogue.

Sam.
Great post.
  #38  
Old 04-24-2008, 01:24 PM
DEADTUNES666  is offline
 
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sable View Post
Parenting is a balance between not making the same mistakes your parents made, and not going too far in the opposite direction.
You don't make the same mistakes your parents did, but in doing so you make new ones. Unfortunately it's never perfect. You just try to make as few as possible.
  #39  
Old 04-24-2008, 02:01 PM
Darin  is offline
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Re: Daughters and dating


2 funny things. 1 is how people read into statements what they want. 2 is people without kids thiinking they have a clue.

My kids aren't objects. But for comparitive purposes, I used something you might value, such as a rare, pricey and special guitar and the possibility that you might be a bit protective. Some people would let a boy they don't know date there daughter for an evening. But wouldn't let the same boy they don't know take their prized guitar.

Making the statement that someone might enjoy something is a poor excuse for accepting it. They might enjoy speeding, drinking and smoking pot. They might enjoy group sex. Do you want your teen daughter engaging in those things? Even if she enjoys it and something positive might be said to come from it? Wanting to do something, and the acceptance of it by others does not make it proper, right, or acceptable.
  #40  
Old 04-24-2008, 02:01 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post
Ok. answer this question.

1. Do you have a daughter?
2. How old is she?
3. What is an acceptable age for her to be 'active' in your mind?


I have unbelievable skeletons that haunt me still..
Wow the truth comes out! I didn't even read through all these posts but I have a true story for you.

I have a daughter, she is 13. She just ran away and spent the night with some Jamaican guy who is much older than her. They had unprotected sex all night. I have been a very strict parent and had all the right talks with this girl but what it comes down to is the kids will find a way if they want to do it and the best you can hope for is the morning after pill.

That being said, if I ever find this boy he will feel some pain.
  #41  
Old 04-24-2008, 02:07 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post
Ok. answer this question.

1. Do you have a daughter?
2. How old is she?
3. What is an acceptable age for her to be 'active' in your mind?

Meaning, if you don't want to control her, then you must be willing to let her make her own choices. But at some age you would still control her. You wouldn't want her getting involved with boys at 10 would you? So you would be controlling. Is there an age where you will pull back the control and let her get involved with boys all she wants, and as a non controlling parent, you'll accept her choices?

I suspect that parents with daughters will answer this question differently than non parents.

The concept of 'control' can be misunderstood. What form is the control? What is the purpose of the control? What is the motivation of the control?

Would you let you baby touch a hot stove so they could learn from their mistake and learn and grow from it? Would you let you kid do anything that could be life alterting and dangerous knowing the consequences could be profound so they could learn from it?

Not everyone is having sex. Sure a lot of kids are. Some with strict parents. I grew up in a passive home. Me and my siblings took advantage of the passive environment and got involved it all kinds of things. I wish I had a more stict home growing up. I have unbelievable skeletons that haunt me still. A lot of pain that could have easily been avoided with at least some guidance and a measure of strictness. If there is no moral standard, then the culture decides what is acceptable. And since our culture is commercially and sexually driven. Many things that seem acceptable, are not.
1. Yes
2. three
3. after marriage

I understand most of your rationale. I think you made a lot of good points in this post. I think there has been a big decline in a moral standard in America.

I don't think touching a hot stove can be compared to sex, though. The child who does touch a hot stove will quickly learn to not touch it, and most likely not have permanent damage.
  #42  
Old 04-24-2008, 02:38 PM
Darin  is offline
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Re: Daughters and dating


ok ok. guitars and hot stoves. my analogies stink. but the point is. people are protective of something they place value on. yet not so protective of a person they place value on. std's, premarital pregnancy, emotional baggage etc. can all be avoided by abstaining till marrige. are you glad your wife has memories of sleeping with other guys? are you glad she learned to be so good in bed with other guys? have you ever loved your wife so much, that you wonder how different it could be if you both only knew intamacy with each other? I wasn't always a Christian, so I've done some thing I greatly regret. I know the pain and skelotons that come with immorality. I would be irresponsible if I did nothing to protect my daughters, and son from the dangers and heart ache that come from unchecked choices.
  #43  
Old 04-24-2008, 02:45 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


(i wonder how long till this thread gets locked)
  #44  
Old 04-24-2008, 03:00 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Well just leave the "Christian" part out of it and the thread will probably stay open. It's irrelevant anyway.
Abstinance until marriage sounds good but is totally unlikey and an unreasonable expectation to place on your child.
In my opinion your expectations are more a part of your emotional baggage and your personal problems and hangups than anything based in reality.
  #45  
Old 04-24-2008, 03:05 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Not wanting to sound like an ass, but it sounds like you want your daughters to live the life you want them to live and not what they might want to live.

The trouble with most religious people is that they view their beliefs as absolutely right and dismiss people who disagree. As a non religious person i can respect all peoples views!
There is nothing dirty, immoral or wrong with sex. Even sex outside marriage. Expecting people in todays times to live up to outdated religious expectations causes nothing but bad feeling and trauma. NO-ONE should be made to feel guilty for two adults having consensual sex so long as no other parties are involved.

Sure....we'd all like to have that virgin But i would rather be with a girl that had experienced life and chose me as being the one she knew she wanted above all others, than have the trophy virgin who one day wonders what she missed out on.
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