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  #46  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:15 PM
waylay00  is offline
 
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by andy7jem View Post
Not wanting to sound like an ass, but it sounds like you want your daughters to live the life you want them to live and not what they might want to live.
Isn't that his responsibility as a parent? I'm not saying that he should have total control over their lives, but there's a point where a parent has to be a parent and set some boundaries. After all, they are still technically his responsibility until they turn 18 (at least in the States).

Sure, tons of kids want to smoke dope or trip on acid. Should the parents concede let them do it just because that's "the life they might want to live"? Absolutely not.

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Originally Posted by Rotti View Post
Abstinance until marriage sounds good but is totally unlikey and an unreasonable expectation to place on your child.
It's a perfectly reasonable expectation in my opinion. To say otherwise means that a parent has no confidence in his/her child rearing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy7jem View Post
There is nothing dirty, immoral or wrong with sex. Even sex outside marriage. Expecting people in todays times to live up to outdated religious expectations causes nothing but bad feeling and trauma. NO-ONE should be made to feel guilty for two adults having consensual sex so long as no other parties are involved.
Premarital "casual" sex, whether one wants to ignore it or not, is a cause of some of the biggest problems we have (STDs, kids with bad childhoods because their father is missing who later grow up to repeat the cycle or get involved with gangs, etc., etc....)
  #47  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:20 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Got kids Rotti?
  #48  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:28 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by waylay00 View Post
Isn't that his responsibility as a parent? I'm not saying that he should have total control over their lives, but there's a point where a parent has to be a parent and set some boundaries. After all, they are still technically his responsibility until they turn 18 (at least in the States).

Sure, tons of kids want to smoke dope or trip on acid. Should the parents concede let them do it just because that's "the life they might want to live"? Absolutely not.
At what point in my statement did i say they should take drugs????

That's severely twisting what i said!!

You're not planning on becoming a politician by any chance??
  #49  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:32 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


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Originally Posted by andy7jem View Post
At what point in my statement did i say they should take drugs????

That's severely twisting what i said!!

You're not planning on becoming a politician by any chance??
I'm not saying you did. I'm just placing your reasoning in another situation. In fact, Darin made a similar comment earlier that I just now noticed.

And no, I'm not planning on becoming a politician. I'm just stating my argument.
  #50  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:35 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by waylay00 View Post
.
Premarital "casual" sex, whether one wants to ignore it or not, is a cause of some of the biggest problems we have (STDs, kids with bad childhoods because their father is missing who later grow up to repeat the cycle or get involved with gangs, etc., etc....)
So....aside from the STD part which educated people can take precautions against, the rest that you are saying has never happened to any kids from families who married as virgins??

Marrying as virgins doesn't instantly gaurantee a happy lifetime of marriage until death!!


I wasn't implying he should insist his daughters become the neighbourhood trash
  #51  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:36 PM
Robotalk  is offline
 
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by waylay00 View Post
Isn't that his responsibility as a parent? I'm not saying that he should have total control over their lives, but there's a point where a parent has to be a parent and set some boundaries. After all, they are still technically his responsibility until they turn 18 (at least in the States).

Sure, tons of kids want to smoke dope or trip on acid. Should the parents concede let them do it just because that's "the life they might want to live"? Absolutely not.



It's a perfectly reasonable expectation in my opinion. To say otherwise means that a parent has no confidence in his/her child rearing.



Premarital "casual" sex, whether one wants to ignore it or not, is a cause of some of the biggest problems we have (STDs, kids with bad childhoods because their father is missing who later grow up to repeat the cycle or get involved with gangs, etc., etc....)

Good points!
  #52  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:39 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by andy7jem View Post
So....aside from the STD part which educated people can take precautions against, the rest that you are saying has never happened to any kids from families who married as virgins??
Nope, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that a lot of those kids who grow up into a life of crime are the product of "casual sex" relationships. Coming from the city with the second highest crime rate in the US, its easy to see that here.
  #53  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:39 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by andy7jem View Post
So....aside from the STD part which educated people can take precautions against, the rest that you are saying has never happened to any kids from families who married as virgins??

Marrying as virgins doesn't instantly gaurantee a happy lifetime of marriage until death!!


I wasn't implying he should insist his daughters become the neighbourhood trash
I don't think he's saying it never happened. I think he's saying there are more cases of those things from sex outside of marriage, than from sex within the confinement of a marriage.
  #54  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:41 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Premarital sex probably isn't as much a problem in society as religion is!!

Saying "Thou shalt not get boned until thine wedding night" is probably in many cases why many rebel against it Which ties in with people saying over-strictness causes rebellion!!

And anyway.......where i live i've got NO chance of finding a virgin
  #55  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:48 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Religion itself isn't a problem. It's the tolerance of men towards other religions and races that's always been a problem throughout history.

But lets not get there as politics and religion debate is a no no here.
  #56  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:52 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by andy7jem View Post
"Thou shalt not get boned until thine wedding night"
Is that a King James Translation?

One big thing to remember is not all religions judge. The moral ground was laid for our benefit, but everyone makes mistakes, and mistakes (in some theologies-even deliberate mistakes) are forgiven.
  #57  
Old 04-24-2008, 05:27 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post
ok ok. guitars and hot stoves. my analogies stink. but the point is. people are protective of something they place value on. yet not so protective of a person they place value on. std's, premarital pregnancy, emotional baggage etc. can all be avoided by abstaining till marrige. are you glad your wife has memories of sleeping with other guys? are you glad she learned to be so good in bed with other guys? have you ever loved your wife so much, that you wonder how different it could be if you both only knew intamacy with each other? I wasn't always a Christian, so I've done some thing I greatly regret. I know the pain and skelotons that come with immorality. I would be irresponsible if I did nothing to protect my daughters, and son from the dangers and heart ache that come from unchecked choices.
Well... as someone who didn't have sex until she was married (at age 21) I can tell you it sucked. He and I were both virgins and because sex had been so taboo for both of us, neither of us knew much about it or how to go about it. And after at least 12 years of consciously being told how much of a sin sex is and how terrible it will make you feel if you did it before you got married and how girls who did it were damaged or tainted etc etc etc etc... Your views on sex in general are pretty friggin warped.

Is it any wonder that my marriage lasted all of 4 years and we had sex less than a dozen times during those 4 years? My ex is a wonderful person and I care for him dearly... like a brother! It wasn't until I got away from that lifestyle and all the people who think that way, that I learned that sex could be very enjoyable and I didn't have to hate myself for being a sexual being.

I still have tons of guilt associated with sex and I am terribly confused a lot when trying to reconcile my past with the life I want to live. That sort of brain washing can really screw up someone.

I can totally appreciate trying to protect your children and all, and when kids are young then they totally need to be protected. No one should see a 12 or 14 year old kid as a sexual being. That is just sick. But when a 16 year old girl and a 16 year old boy see each other that way, that's really quite normal. Not all kids are emotionally ready at 16... and they should be discouraged until they are emotionally ready. Perhaps 18 or 19 is better for them and maybe for all youngsters. That truly depends on the person I think. But to tell someone for years and years that sex is bad or off limits or whatever, it makes it nearly impossible for them to flip a switch and have normal, healthy, sexually active lives with their spouse.

Sure, every man wants to go where no man has gone before so to speak... but are men really so damn emotionally fragile that they can't deal with it? My husband had a lot more experience than I did and frankly I'm glad! Seeing as my first husband had no clue and it was never actually enjoyable, my hubby now was happy to show me how much fun it can be, and I'm grateful that he has read the manual if you know what I mean.

I find it strange that men are so intimidated by independent women who know what they want and are happy to say what they need. I know tons of men who say that is what they want but in reality they can't handle it. But I digress...

Not to be a bit too Freudian, but you don't get to plow that field. Your kids are not to be preserved for your own personal mistakes or desires. I find it pretty creepy that so many of these straight edge encouraging parents actually think in detail of their children in sexual circumstances. Perhaps it is the numerous amounts of child rape cases I read this year in evidence, but it seems to me that some parents (not all and not even anyone who has posted here) seem to think that if they keep their kids "pure" that they can deny that they are growing up, deny that other people (and maybe even that parent) will find that child sexually attractive, and deny their own sexuality.

So yeah sure... everyone can disregard anything I say because I am not a parent. I try not to disregard what parents say about their kids because I always enjoy the good discussions. I enjoy being a bit of a bridge between parents and their kids. I have a very rare experience when it comes to these things in that I didn't screw around. I had that whole high school fairytale date the same guy for 6 years and be the only one you know who marries and has a pretty successful life. But it didn't make me happy. But at the same time I know how much I will love my children one day and hope to keep them from the pain and suffering that I had growing up.

So hopefully we can all try to listen to each other's opinions as I think everyone can offer a different perspective. Sometimes when you are too close to a situation you can't see it from an outside perspective. Sometimes outside perspectives are totally off base from what your situation truly is... but your perception and the perceptions of others all hold elements of truth. I just try to look for the truth in myself and in others and believe that truth, confidence, strength, independent thought, acceptance, and understanding are the ultimate character traits of people I respect. Those are the things I wish to instill in all of the youth and my own kids too someday.
  #58  
Old 04-24-2008, 05:30 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosa View Post
Religion itself isn't a problem. It's the tolerance of men towards other religions and races that's always been a problem throughout history.

But lets not get there as politics and religion debate is a no no here.
Excellent advice
  #59  
Old 04-24-2008, 05:38 PM
Darin  is offline
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Re: Daughters and dating


Christian or not. Everyone of us has a moral base somewhere. For me, I have chosen a Biblical moral base. So right and wrong are viewed through a Biblical scope. But even those of you that choose not to follow such a strict standard, you must have a 'base' somewhere.

Lets try this. If its "ok" for your daughter to have premarital sex. Meaning, you have absolutely no problem with it because she uses protection and like it. At what age is that ok?. Why have you chosen that age?. Say you settle on under 18. Because after all, all the kids are doing it. What if she said she was going to a party with all boys. Would you have a problem with that? What if it was a party with all men? At some point. You will draw a line of acceptability for you teen daughter, and you impose control. But why? If you do not have a Scriptural or "religious" moral basis for right or wrong, then what makes anything wrong? If it's just personal feelings, and feeling change and vary among people and cultures, then right and wrong can change.

Religion aside. The thing that effects a parents "line of acceptability" is a moral base. If you're not 'religious'. Why have a moral base at all? This is not really a religious debate. But a question of what behaviour will you accept in your children while they are still at a parenting age? If you allow one thing, why not another? Why not limitless orgies envolving your daughters and boys? For those of us that have chosen a Biblical foundation, it a simpe question to answer. Because it wrong, period. And the culture of the day will not sway our beliefs. But for others, what would be the use of not allowing anything that feels good at any age?

Please don't ruin this thread by making it a religious debate. There is no need to get upset, name call, accuse, blame etc. But it's an opportunity to express where you are coming from, personally, as a parent.

In the end, we can all still get along.

-Darin
  #60  
Old 04-24-2008, 05:47 PM
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Re: Daughters and dating


Darin, here's a question for you... Suppose that your daughter decides she wants to:

a) become an exotic dancer

b) pose for playboy

c) become an adult entertainer

d) join a gang

Which one would you choose, and why?


To answer your questions:

as someone who had sex way before 18, I would concede into letting my daughter do it at 17. Why? Simple, she's out of high school and by that time, she'll at least know one thing or two about sex and the perils.

If she was going to a party with all boys, I would certainly ask her if she was the party. I wouldn't mind if she were going with a single boy but, with many, that's definitely not something I would allow. The key factor here revolves on moral values and not necessarily religious ones. After all, people's children will remember what they were taught by their parents at many points in their lives. If parents don't teach their children certain core vaules, they won't learn them, and, ultimately the fingers will be pointed at the parents, not the kids.

Jimmy
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