Daughters and dating

[Zero 7]

Originally Posted by Darin

Got kids Rotti?

Irrelevant, other than to the extent that HAVING kids would bias him and diminish the credibility of his responses.

[Zero 7]

Originally Posted by andy7jem

Premarital sex probably isn't as much a problem in society as religion is!!

Awesome point, but a lockable one

[Zero 7]

Originally Posted by Silver Sable

Well... as someone who didn't have sex until she was married (at age 21) I can tell you it sucked. He and I were both virgins and because sex had been so taboo for both of us, neither of us knew much about it or how to go about it. And after at least 12 years of consciously being told how much of a sin sex is and how terrible it will make you feel if you did it before you got married and how girls who did it were damaged or tainted etc etc etc etc... Your views on sex in general are pretty friggin warped.

Is it any wonder that my marriage lasted all of 4 years and we had sex less than a dozen times during those 4 years? My ex is a wonderful person and I care for him dearly... like a brother! It wasn't until I got away from that lifestyle and all the people who think that way, that I learned that sex could be very enjoyable and I didn't have to hate myself for being a sexual being.

I still have tons of guilt associated with sex and I am terribly confused a lot when trying to reconcile my past with the life I want to live. That sort of brain washing can really screw up someone.

I can totally appreciate trying to protect your children and all, and when kids are young then they totally need to be protected. No one should see a 12 or 14 year old kid as a sexual being. That is just sick. But when a 16 year old girl and a 16 year old boy see each other that way, that's really quite normal. Not all kids are emotionally ready at 16... and they should be discouraged until they are emotionally ready. Perhaps 18 or 19 is better for them and maybe for all youngsters. That truly depends on the person I think. But to tell someone for years and years that sex is bad or off limits or whatever, it makes it nearly impossible for them to flip a switch and have normal, healthy, sexually active lives with their spouse.

Sure, every man wants to go where no man has gone before so to speak... but are men really so damn emotionally fragile that they can't deal with it? My husband had a lot more experience than I did and frankly I'm glad! Seeing as my first husband had no clue and it was never actually enjoyable, my hubby now was happy to show me how much fun it can be, and I'm grateful that he has read the manual if you know what I mean.

I find it strange that men are so intimidated by independent women who know what they want and are happy to say what they need. I know tons of men who say that is what they want but in reality they can't handle it. But I digress...

Not to be a bit too Freudian, but you don't get to plow that field. Your kids are not to be preserved for your own personal mistakes or desires. I find it pretty creepy that so many of these straight edge encouraging parents actually think in detail of their children in sexual circumstances. Perhaps it is the numerous amounts of child rape cases I read this year in evidence, but it seems to me that some parents (not all and not even anyone who has posted here) seem to think that if they keep their kids "pure" that they can deny that they are growing up, deny that other people (and maybe even that parent) will find that child sexually attractive, and deny their own sexuality.

So yeah sure... everyone can disregard anything I say because I am not a parent. I try not to disregard what parents say about their kids because I always enjoy the good discussions. I enjoy being a bit of a bridge between parents and their kids. I have a very rare experience when it comes to these things in that I didn't screw around. I had that whole high school fairytale date the same guy for 6 years and be the only one you know who marries and has a pretty successful life. But it didn't make me happy. But at the same time I know how much I will love my children one day and hope to keep them from the pain and suffering that I had growing up.

So hopefully we can all try to listen to each other's opinions as I think everyone can offer a different perspective. Sometimes when you are too close to a situation you can't see it from an outside perspective. Sometimes outside perspectives are totally off base from what your situation truly is... but your perception and the perceptions of others all hold elements of truth. I just try to look for the truth in myself and in others and believe that truth, confidence, strength, independent thought, acceptance, and understanding are the ultimate character traits of people I respect. Those are the things I wish to instill in all of the youth and my own kids too someday.

Darin, please re-read this. You have here a woman who has gone through pretty much the same experience as your daughter is going through.

You would be a fool not to take this advice, as this IS your daughter in many years time, and the issues in here WILL probably affect her, too.

You're making your (her) decisions based upon whjat will be best for her future. Well, here is her future, Darin, based on what you are doing to her at the moment. Trauma, mental scarring, sexual dissatisfaction and unease, and decreased enjoyment of sex. Make of it what you will.


Also, your analogies of orgies and the like are akin to my question of:

"Okay, you accept that it is okay to play guitar.

Do you accept that it is okay to play guitar if every time a note is picked, you kill three innocent babies and contract AIDS?

You don't?

Well then, playing guitar is wrong."

You just keep saying "Orgies and gang rape are wrong. Sex is wrong." It's illogical, and a weak argument.

The point is, you're only looking at the possible negatives of sex, and none of the positives. If you're careful enough that your guitars aren't set to 'kill' before you play them, playing guitar is wonderful. If your daughter is careful enough to make sure to use a condom or take the pill, sex is wonderful too.

[CosmicDebris]

Mods close this please.

[Zero 7]

Why?

No taboo issues have been breached. No politics or religion, and nothing is explicit or rude.

It's an interesting debate, and I, for one, am enjoying it.

Don't just lock everything that goes beyond bland agreements and consensus. It's a debate. Deal with it.

[CosmicDebris]

When it involves something like folks kids, sex, and religious views it will go sour. You must not have been on this planet very long. Most people can't debate without emotion and emotions run wild especially with those subjects.

Leave it open then and watch it flame up.

[jim777]

It's open, I'm watching. You're all doing fine as far as I can see.

I'm reminded of a thought, rather, a Deep Thought, by Jack Handey...

"I believe in making the world safe for our children, but not our children's children, because I don't think children should be having sex."

[DEADTUNES666]

Originally Posted by Darin

Sex before marrige. Not ok, sex after marrige? Fun fun fun.

My wife and have been together since 1991, our first child in 1992, our son in 1998, our wedding in 2002 while pregnant with our 3rd, and our 4th in 2005...

Marriage is a joke in this country for the most part...You swear until death do us part, or one of you bangs someone else, in which place someone gets half of the others stuff...

[Rotti]

Originally Posted by waylay00

Regarding abstenance before marriage....

It's a perfectly reasonable expectation in my opinion. To say otherwise means that a parent has no confidence in his/her child rearing.

Only if your #1 goal as a parent is to prevent your teenage child from having sex. I think there are more important things to worry about. I prefer to be realistic and understand that 99% of people have sex before marriage. Set guidelines and expectations sure but more importantly give them lots of information so that they can make good choices and be safe if and when it happens.

The only real argument against sex before marriage is a religious one and this is not the place to discuss religion.

[Rotti]

Originally Posted by Darin

Got kids Rotti?

Yes I do. I have an amazing six year old daughter.

[Darin]

cosmic. my "underage sex" is refering to under 18. since we are discussing minor children, I was assuming you were reffering to 'sex is ok' for them. My mistake. Thanks for aggreeing than anyone under 18 shouldn't be sexually active.


There are people that married as virgins that are not scarred.

i'm not comparing teen sex directly to orgies, i'm say that if you say teen sex is ok, then what else is ok. where and why do you draw a line? is it a moral line? or a safety line? if moral, then why do you set your moral boundry at that point?

statistics mean little to me.

[Darin]

the purpose of this wasn't to debate anything. certainly not religion. but to get a consensus of what parents are doing. if you don't have kids, your opinion is absolutley meaningless to me. if that bothers you, sorry. you absolutley cannot comprehend how different it is when you are talking about your own kids.

again, the loose sex orgy thing. just think it through. if anyones daughter is being taught by their parents that sex outside of marrige, and possible under 18 is ok, good, or healthy. would you stop at just sex with one b/f? could and argument be made that multiple partners are positive? It all goes to the base of your argument.

Lets try this.

Do you have any MORAL boundries for you daughters?

If so, based on what? Your own experience? your faith? stories you've heard?

Are you willing to be the arbitor of someone elses moral base?

I can respect everyones opinion and self testimonies. I was there. I know what it was like to grow up in a passive inviroment. I know people who have abstained. Or at least made a solid effort.

It's still a cultural issue.

Does anyone have a problem with girls marrying at 16 if it's their choice? If you say they aren't old enough to make that choice, then they aren't old enough to choose to be 'active'.

If you can't handle a resonabe discussion, and feel the need to get upset and all bent. Then perhaps this discussion isn't for you.

Finally, all this thread posting is from my cell phone. While I'm installing carpet!

[Darin]

The only real argument against sex before marriage is a religious one and this is not the place to discuss religion.

Really? Then what's the argument against teen sex?

[Darin]

Yes I do. I have an amazing six year old daughter.

have you considered an age age at which you will accept her 'being with' a boyfriend as acceptable and healthy?

[Tank]

sorry but no sex until marriage is stupid, but I am from Europe we are more liberal

I also think with "controlled" sexual contacts before marriage, you get more experience. I would never have married a virgin and had to show her all the things to do... how boring is that. There is nothing bad about sex before 18 when it is with a caring person and consensual without one person being pushed into it.