Jemsite/guitarist elitism

[dannymills]

I hate the elitism that is so rife here and indeed, throughout the guitar-playing community. The presumption that everyone should start on a crap guitar, and not buy an expensive one until they are sufficiently 'seasoned', and the comments that get passed around because of this.

I just saw a 15 year old (or whatever his age is) get completely shot down and flamed for owning a guitar which most of us seem to envy him for, just because his evidently affluent father decided to treat him. I am of course referring to the recent case of AmazinAzian's thread.

Within the thread, there were legitimate comments about how he was 'stupid' for messing around with such an expensive guitar with his limited experience. Yes, he asked to be 'flamed', and I would agree that he was stupid for this.

However, it went too far, IMHO, when people such as Eggy started mocking AA for owning the guitar, inferring that he was a spoiled brat. Maybe his dad does spoil him, but just because AA hasn't 'worked' for the guitar doesn't mean people should abuse and insult him for it. I felt rather disgusted that people would show such attitudes on such a wonderful and helpful forum. AA's dad has clearly worked very hard for his money, and is entitled to spend it as he wishes. Whether a guitar such as the BRMR is 'wasted' on a beginner is a matter of opinion, but either way, no grown adult should insult a teenager in such a way, and I have to say that what went on amounts to nothing less than bullying, clearly spurred on by jealousy, to whatever extent - conscious or subconscious.

There are many 18-and-unders here who own fantastic guitars that have clearly been funded by their parents, but I don't see those Las Vegas kids or Benjamin James getting flamed.

I don't really know. This has probably come out all wrong. This is NOT an attack on anyone, and I don't want to turn anyone against me, even though I probably will. But I'm pretty ashamed of some of you guys, being fellow Jemsiters, to see you adults bully a young man like that.
I am currently on course to enter a remarkably well paid profession, and I would hate to think that when I buy my kids presents for birthdays, Christmas, or even randomly, they will be bullied because certain people are of the opinion that they don't 'deserve' them.

And for the record, I am only 18 and own what I consider to be a fantastic guitar collection. I paid every single penny myself out of part-time wages and my own savings. I am not 'sticking up for my own, just letting out a big sigh in a post. Lol.

[sick-boy]

I have a feeling the floodgates are about to open...
I sense it...
A tremor in the force...

[ibanezcollector]

I have no idea about that thread.. But its much worse in reverse here.. People get a lot of heat for lower end guitars and equipment..

Check a thread for say "I got a new washburn" versus "I got a new J-Custom" This bothers me the most about jemsite.. Its elitest in a bad way like a person doesnt belong here if they dont use high end gear.. Even though there great players..

We need to realize not everyone on jemsite has a ton of cash.. And to treat them as equals.

[dannymills]

Originally Posted by ibanezcollector

We need to realize not everyone on jemsite has a ton of cash.. And to treat them as equals.

Absolutely. But I think that's a rarer occurence than the "OMG you don't deserve your Jem" that goes on.

[sick-boy]

Originally Posted by ibanezcollector

I have no idea about that thread.. But its much worse in reverse here.. People get a lot of heat for lower end guitars and equipment..

Check a thread for say "I got a new washburn" versus "I got a new J-Custom" This bothers me the most about jemsite.. Its elitest in a bad way like a person doesnt belong here if they dont use high end gear.. Even though there great players..

We need to realize not everyone on jemsite has a ton of cash.. And to treat them as equals.

Just to play the Devil's Advocate for a second, this is called "Jemsite", so you can expect flaming from time to time. The whole point of the forum was for JEM owners, initially. It's right there in the name.

[ibanezcollector]

ok so the kid that dreams of a jem one day but is stuck with a $200 guitar doesnt deserve to be here?

[dannymills]

Originally Posted by ibanezcollector

ok so the kid that dreams of a jem one day but is stuck with a $200 guitar doesnt deserve to be here?

Haha, I was that kid *violins*...

But seriously, thanks to Jemsite, and only Jemsite, I now have three cracking Ibanezes, including an S1520 and a 7621 .

[sick-boy]

Originally Posted by ibanezcollector

ok so the kid that dreams of a jem one day but is stuck with a $200 guitar doesnt deserve to be here?

As I said, I was playing Devil's Advocate.
In reality I personally don't care who's here discussing their gear. I'm just hear to learn and to help other's out when I can.
But you have to come to expect some flaming from more vocal members.
I would expect the same from any guitar related forum.
Actually, I thought they took it easy on AA. You have to admit he lacked a lot of tact in his posts.

[ibanezcollector]

again I never read that post so I have no idea what went on.. And not picking on you..

BAD THREADS all in all this is still the friendliest damn forum out there..

[sick-boy]

Originally Posted by ibanezcollector

again I never read that post so I have no idea what went on.. And not picking on you..

BAD THREADS all in all this is still the friendliest damn forum out there..

That's what I was thinking. I've been on some forums where it's nothing but a giant d*ck measuring contest. It made me wonder what exactly was the point of having moderators.
I love this forum!

[rtrdpenguin]

This forum is quite friendly. People only get flamed when they really deserve it... I haven't seen this thread about AmazinAzian but there was probably a relatively good reason for flaming.

[470tojem]

I love this place! ;-)

[Ayrton]

Well I am sure this site was started about the JEM models, but it has really grown into THE go to site for Ibanez information.

Well I see the same things you do, but I see that on several forums, not just this one or guitar sites in general. However, the fact that we are talking about it says it is a problem we don’t want, and ultimately it is up to the users to set the “tone” of the forum.

For the record, I am a 36 year old with more guitars than my talent level says I should have, and I don’t care.

[Dee]

Originally Posted by dannymills

I hate the elitism that is so rife here and indeed, throughout the guitar-playing community. The presumption that everyone should start on a crap guitar, and not buy an expensive one until they are sufficiently 'seasoned', and the comments that get passed around because of this.

I just saw a 15 year old (or whatever his age is) get completely shot down and flamed for owning a guitar which most of us seem to envy him for, just because his evidently affluent father decided to treat him. I am of course referring to the recent case of AmazinAzian's thread.

Within the thread, there were legitimate comments about how he was 'stupid' for messing around with such an expensive guitar with his limited experience. Yes, he asked to be 'flamed', and I would agree that he was stupid for this.

However, it went too far, IMHO, when people such as Eggy started mocking AA for owning the guitar, inferring that he was a spoiled brat. Maybe his dad does spoil him, but just because AA hasn't 'worked' for the guitar doesn't mean people should abuse and insult him for it. I felt rather disgusted that people would show such attitudes on such a wonderful and helpful forum. AA's dad has clearly worked very hard for his money, and is entitled to spend it as he wishes. Whether a guitar such as the BRMR is 'wasted' on a beginner is a matter of opinion, but either way, no grown adult should insult a teenager in such a way, and I have to say that what went on amounts to nothing less than bullying, clearly spurred on by jealousy, to whatever extent - conscious or subconscious.

There are many 18-and-unders here who own fantastic guitars that have clearly been funded by their parents, but I don't see those Las Vegas kids or Benjamin James getting flamed.

I don't really know. This has probably come out all wrong. This is NOT an attack on anyone, and I don't want to turn anyone against me, even though I probably will. But I'm pretty ashamed of some of you guys, being fellow Jemsiters, to see you adults bully a young man like that.
I am currently on course to enter a remarkably well paid profession, and I would hate to think that when I buy my kids presents for birthdays, Christmas, or even randomly, they will be bullied because certain people are of the opinion that they don't 'deserve' them.

And for the record, I am only 18 and own what I consider to be a fantastic guitar collection. I paid every single penny myself out of part-time wages and my own savings. I am not 'sticking up for my own, just letting out a big sigh in a post. Lol.

I'm glad you wrote this, Dan. Yesterday I wrote something similar in the actual thread, but half way through I stopped myself and didn't even bother to post because I knew it would turn into a load of immature arguments and a total flame fest. My point was why even bother writing anything? Spare yourself the lectures, he doesn't need to hear it, or do you guys just enjoy bullying 15 year-olds? It's really stupid! Here we have 20 and 30 something year-old guys acting more immature than the kid who wrote the post, just trying to make themselves feel better and look cool, experienced, whatever. You know what, I bet half those f*ckers can't even play! Cut the crap. Don't bother posting any more lectures, and if you can't offer help, shut the f up.

Originally Posted by ibanezcollector

I have no idea about that thread.. But its much worse in reverse here.. People get a lot of heat for lower end guitars and equipment..

Check a thread for say "I got a new washburn" versus "I got a new J-Custom" This bothers me the most about jemsite.. Its elitest in a bad way like a person doesnt belong here if they dont use high end gear.. Even though there great players..

We need to realize not everyone on jemsite has a ton of cash.. And to treat them as equals.

I'm also glad this was posted. I happen to be one of the less well-off people here, but I have a good 27 years of experience as a guitarist to draw from, 20 of those years spent playing and studying Ibanez guitars, and hopefully the least I can offer is some useful advice to a 15 year-old kid.

Most of the time this is a great board and a great community, yet we allow ourselves to stoop to such low levels occasionally. We should know better.

[vette6600]

Originally Posted by Dee

Yesterday I wrote something similar in the actual thread, but half way through I stopped myself and didn't even bother

i hear ya man. i visit this site a couple times a day, but rarely post anymore. sometimes it's just not worth it