Palestine.....why?

[barbarelaxe]

Originally Posted by Darin

A second question. When Isreal gives up land, aren't there houses there? What happens to the homeonwers? Do they get reimbursed financially when they leave their house? Who gets it?

In the gaza strip all houses and facilities were demolished. The reason the government gave for this is the fear that teorists will use them as shelter. There are people in Israel that think it was a mistake because they believe that those homes and facilities could have been used for the good of the palestinian people. Some people say this is naive thinking because the way things are conducted in palestine theres no chance that any of the simple people would have even been aloud to stand within 2 yards from those homes and facilities by their own government. The Israelies that were evacuated recived money to enable them to relocate and purchase new homes, or move in to temporary housing in caravn camps the government built. Some of them still live in those camp.

[barbarelaxe]

To be honest, I don't see an end to this in the near future. on one side palestine makes unreasonable demands that Israel can't agree to like permitting all plestinian families to return to their homes in haifa and tel-aviv for example after they ran away in 1948. on the other side theres not one political figure here in Israel that can gain enough public support to make more drastic moves in terms of evacuating more territories and remove settelments. they are all to much in love with their lether chairs and prefer to keep things as they are.

[barbarelaxe]

Originally Posted by losgatosrg350dx

i have family that lives there in israel, some for buissness and on grand mother

Really? where? you are the second member I know of with family in Israel.

[losgatosrg350dx]

i dont understand why this is even still a issue

it seems that most of these demands and issues are all VAIN, and are all selfish beyond resonable allowances

is there a solid reason why this cant just end?? people can move on and develop thier own country, live on thier own, and use the money to help thier people rather sending missles and bombs over

this sounds like a huge joke to me
i mena im not from there, and i have family whos there right now...but seriously now, if i sold my home in 1948, what give me the righ to get it back all of a sudden...just like if i ran away, so i ran away....make a better life enlsewhere. i know to me it seems like childish and nonsense..completely, it seems like they should drave a border and a huge wal and people should keep to themselves, allow each contry thier own privacy and develop...and maybe after palestine develops into a mature country, with more resonable and beurocratic standpoints they can negotiate and work out thier problems, but it just seems like the fithting is useless and pointles, and mostly drwan on by currupt and HORRIBLE leaders whom are using reasons like....1948, tey ran away, not they want thier homes back.....like does this reason even matter...in court if you were to take this same instance to a judge, what would he say....does anyone agree this is basicly dragged out old news...and this should just be ended by the UN

[losgatosrg350dx]

Originally Posted by barbarelaxe

Really? where? you are the second member I know of with family in Israel.

im not sure, beitshemesh(sp) i have a grand mother(dads mom there) and shes loosing it shes in a home, and i have a great grandmother(moms dads mom) who just lost it...and i have a cousing who works for national seniconductor but she moved to france to avoid that drama....

[barbarelaxe]

Originally Posted by Rotti

I think there is lots of guilt and atrocities from BOTH sides of that confilct but this is not the place to discuss it.

You are right in regards of who's fault it is but I'm here only to explain and trying not to justify my country or anything like that.

here is a short quute from an opinion column that was published a few months ago in one of the weekend news papers:

“What Did the Palestinians Do with Their ‘Marshall Plan’? - Ben-Dror Yamini

“The Palestinians have bought themselves a place of honor on the list of unfortunates in the world. A well-oiled public relations campaign has turned them into a nation of victims. Misery pays. One of the countries hated by the Palestinians the most, the United States, has since 1993 helped them more than any other nation in the world, according to World Bank figures. From 1994 to 2004, the U.S. provided the Palestinians with $1.3 billion, the EU $1.1 billion, and Japan $530 million. In addition to direct aid, the U.S. is also the largest contributor to UNRWA, the UN agency for Palestinian refugees.

“In 1992, the Palestinian per capita GDP was $2,683 per person. If there had not been terror, the Palestinian economy could have grown during the 1990s into one of the leaders in the Middle East. The money was used for three major purposes: perpetuation of the refugees as victims, purchase of weapons and explosives, and corruption. Opportunities to achieve independence and prosperity were rejected for the ultimate goal: the removal of Israel from the map.

“In relation to their numbers, the Palestinians have received more aid than provided by the Marshall Plan after World War II. Since the Oslo agreements, the Palestinians in the territories have received $5.5 billion, or $1,300 per person. By comparison, in the Marshall plan, each European enjoyed only $273 (in today's numbers). Above all, the guilt lies with those who gave these huge sums without having the Palestinians undergo a period of recovery from their futile dreams of the destruction of Israel. The result is, primarily, the continued destruction of Palestinian society. (Maariv-Hebrew, 5Jan[07])” (Source: Daily Alert, January 8, 2007)

[barbarelaxe]

some more reading material if you are interested. Warning, it is a rather long article.
http://imshin.net/?p=448

[microdmitry]

Well, you aren't just going to take Muslim land and get away with it. It's in the Qu'ran and they're pretty hardcore about maintaining their territorial integrity. Israel should really have been formed in Germany, to punish it for WWII. Instead, the rest of the world just agreed to take the land from palestinians and say that it now belongs to a new sovereign nation and those who disagree should GTFO and STFU. It doesn't really hit home until you translate this to your own soil. Let's say for the sake of argument that the US was weak, and a number of other countries decided to take away California and give it to Iraq. That would stir some discontent, no? Consider how much worse it would be if the Bible had some hard rules in it about protecting motherland, and 90% of the population was very religious.

My point is, Palestinians would have a very hard time even if they wanted to be OK with it. And they're most certainly not OK with it. This will drag on forever, and not because Israel is "patient". There are plenty of Muslim nations with their fingers on the trigger. They don't want a full-scale war, but they'll have to do it in case there's a full blown attack on Palestine.

[losgatosrg350dx]

theres no holy written testament other than word of mouth and people writting it themselves

holy land, was a term UNKNOWN BEFORE the 50's, wich was led to desert storm, also a term used to disengrate he fact that developed land, was once not holly and now all of it sudden is

the land the palestinians call holy was actually in the area now known as egypt, there was no origional palestinian standpoint in israel, the only reason why they were there to beign with was to escape the realms of egypt, NOT PUTTING UP WITH THIER CRAP

so they left and went to israel...and then fleed durring the 50's...still to this day they have palestine...what else do they want...they are noname nation (figure of speech) with no international developement, in fact they have subseeded in becomeing lower than most nations becasue they have not developed...africa....had less financial excortion to begin with, and look, they are developing just fine, and not hating the english for all they did....and they have had holy tribes before palestine knew how to wipe thier butt!

[Darin]

Easy now. The facts can speak for themselves. I suspect this thread can educate more than a few people. But derogatory comments will bring the hammer down on us.

[Darin]

I'll be interesting to see some more POV's if we have some Muslim guitar playin brothers around here inputting.

[barbarelaxe]

Originally Posted by microdmitry

Israel should really have been formed in Germany, to punish it for WWII. .

That is kind of funny. I don't know if you are aware of it but before Israel was formed in the middle east there was a serious offer to give the jewish people land in africe where Uganda is these days, in this offer was debated in the zionist council in vienna.
This will go on for a long time because the palestinian are not willing to move an inch from some of their unreasonable demands and because theres not one politician that is brave enough to make drastic moves to show he is serious in regards to achieving peace. and when I say peace I don't mean by wiping out all living palestinians, but by returning to what is known as the green line border from 1967.

[microdmitry]

@Darin: Precisely. You aren't going to get the opposite side's point of view from someone from Jewish or Judeo-Christian side. One thing is indisputable - there's a lot of ill will on both sides.

[barbarelaxe]

Originally Posted by microdmitry

Instead, the rest of the world just agreed to take the land from palestinians and say that it now belongs to a new sovereign nation and those who disagree should GTFO and STFU.

well that is not intirely currect. there never was a palestinian country here. before WWI the turkish people ruled this area and after WWI the british people ruled it. when the united nations decided that the jewish people are entitled to their own land in 1948, the area between the Mediterranean sea and the Jordan river was devided in half according to what is known as "the division plan". Non of the arab countries that surround this area was willing to agree to that so they started a coordinated war immediately which we were lucky to win, otherwise there was no Israel to speak of today and the muslims could point all there efforts into conquring europe . more then 30% of the Israeli population was killed during that war.

[jb4674]

What the whole thing boils down to is a fight over land that has existed for many centuries and it isn't going to stop anytime soon.

Jimmy