Palestine.....why?

[Darin]

What ever yout stance and knowledge of Israel & Palestine conflict/history. Lets look at a snapshot of what's currently going on. Israel, if they really wanted, could hand the Palestinians their butts without skipping a beat. They have the technology, but not the will. Palestinians must know this. So they keep lobbing ineffective missles into Israel. It's like poking a dog with a stick. If Palestine wants a war, and has Iran backing of weapons, why don't they just jump in with both feet and throw everything they got. I'm not debating sides here. Just technique. What do you think Palestine is thinking each time they poke the dog with the stick? I know they have religious problems with each other. But darn it. They could live in peace if they just chilled and made the best of it. But if they can't chill, and want all the land. Then why not assemble the troops and march in and take it?

That said. (probably incorrectly) And without having to take a side. What would you do if you were Palestinian General in charge of achieving your goals? What would you do if you were an Isreal General?

Everytime I hear another news story, seems daily, about another missle into Israel. I wonder, what are they doing? Either throw down and get it over with. Or walk away from the fight.

I know we have at least one guy here from Isreal. If your reading this. What do you think Isreal should do?

[Jason Stone]

How long before this thread is locked?

[moebius]

Darin are you trying to stir up controversy? This is a sure fire way to get banned.

[losgatosrg350dx]

not to be offensive..but look at palistine
look at who runs it
look at whom is on the opposing side


the people running the conflict on palesines side, and thier leaders arent very intelligent at all

i would say its like
a RED ball would roll from palestine to israel, and the israelies would say wow what a nice RED ball, and the palestines would say GIVE US THAT BLUE BALL BACK OR ITS WAR

misguided, misleaded, worthless attempt, it should have a beurocratic war not a civil war....but its not like either side is equaly intelligent, one side has developed, and the other side is still sitting in the gutter becasue thier leaders do not reinstate progress for thier country...thus being jelous, and fighting, like when one kid has a popsicle, and his little brother gets jelous

something like that

[barbarelaxe]

ok,
I'm not gonna state any political point of view or give any suggestions, just try to tell things as they are. Also I want to say that I don't live near any of the places that are bordering with the palestine authority so my every day life is not affected at all.
Darin, you are right when you say Israel doesn't have the will to renter the teritories we already evacuated for many reasons. Even the army is not interested in doing that. one reason is that these are very dense populated areas and it is close to impossible to not hurt innocent people.
on the other side the rockets that are being fired into Israel's teritory are not as useless as you think. They effect every day life and moral of the people that live next to the gaza strip. and people have been killed and wounded by those rockets. A few weeks ago a kid lost his leg, and another kid almost lost an arm from a shred of a rocket. those who can left those places and moved closer to the center of Israel. those who can't stayed, and the psychological effect on them is serious. a lot of buisness owners are fighting to stay open just to make a stand. Theirs a new movment in Israel organizing groups of people every friday from the center of Israel that drive to sderot and the kibutzim around here and make all the weekend shopping in order to show their support.
Now I'm not saying that Israel is free of blame in this situation. Before Israel completely evacuated the gaza strip the former palestine government asked us to coordinate the evacuation with them, but since our previous prime minister (ariel sharon) had very little faith in them he decided that it is going to be a one sided move and they can do what ever they want. a lot of people including the current Israeli government admit that it was a mistake.
I can keep writing for hours so in conclusion I'll just say that it is a very complicated situation. Israel can't and don't want to ignore worldwide opinion and palestine doesn't realy care until Israel army makes an attack and then they cry out to the world that Israel is out to destroy and kill them all.
Theres a lot of suspicion between sides. as there are negative elements among the palestine people there are the same negative elements in the Israeli society that will do anything in there abilty to fail any chance of peace (including killing the prime minister if you remember what happened to Itzhak Rabin) so... funny enough both of them consists of religious people, jewish and muslims.
It's quite despairing for people in both sides that just want to live their life in peace.
That was alot of spell checking on my behalf so I'll stop now and if any of you boys and girls wanna ask something I'll be happy to answer.

[barbarelaxe]

Originally Posted by losgatosrg350dx

not to be offensive..but look at palistine
look at who runs it
look at whom is on the opposing side


the people running the conflict on palesines side, and thier leaders arent very intelligent at all

i would say its like
a RED ball would roll from palestine to israel, and the israelies would say wow what a nice RED ball, and the palestines would say GIVE US THAT BLUE BALL BACK OR ITS WAR

misguided, misleaded, worthless attempt, it should have a beurocratic war not a civil war....but its not like either side is equaly intelligent, one side has developed, and the other side is still sitting in the gutter becasue thier leaders do not reinstate progress for thier country...thus being jelous, and fighting, like when one kid has a popsicle, and his little brother gets jelous

something like that

I know what you mean but let's try to avoid angry responds like this to avoid locking this thread. I feel like that it is somewhat important to keep it running just to talk. I guess that since this is a world wide furom there are some muslim members as well on this furom and I'll be happy to interact with them as well.

Avi

[Darin]

I'm not trying to debate who's right or wrong here. Just the methods they are using to achieve their goals. Think of your self as being in charge. If you are Palestinian, what would you do to achieve your goals? I just don't understand this approach they are taking. Maybe it's brilliance hidden behind what seems to be a lack of will.

So, play army general and make a play. Isreal is being very patient. They aren't going away and they have Palestine lobbing missles in all the time. What would you do if your neighbor was doing that?

Don't get involved in political/religious debate. Just theoretical military tactics for each side. I say, get it on and get it over with. When the dust settles, winner gets the land. Or, shake hands and agree to be neighbors.

[losgatosrg350dx]

nonono, im not angry, i do respect muslims and people all to themselves. im not telling someone they are wrong...but there clearly are people who are involved with this fiasco who arent very intelligent, who have power and whom are very vain. im not talking about the board members here, im talking about he people unjust bombing, and fighting over something that doesnt belong to them anymore

take desert storm
true story i may add
back in the day iraq not only sold us the land, but we paied them for every bit of oil and resources we took, kinda like a tax
we developed the land, installed our resources, we basicaly made the wells self sufficient to operate, with or without people. we as the us, developed and invested out equipement, machinery and time and knowledge.

iraw then saw what WE did, and claimed something was holy when it wasnt, just a ploy. they wanted us to develope it, and then for them to take over...sorry...you know its like if i wanted a pizza, and i go to littel ceasars and pay for it, then i want them to make me a pizaa, but then steal the whole pizzaria

long story short, to this day there is only half the fires put out in iraq, where americans are still fighting to put them out, the iraqis blew up ten thousand wells and sumps that belonged to us....for what, becasue they got envious...why id they spend all thier money on golden ak47's, im sure that money could have went to he people and to develop thier country

theres no reason why palestine should be in powstruck envireoment with activists and evildo'ers whom are in the control

strip them of thier power, theres no reason why unrashionable people based on envy and vain should be in power destroying peoples lives

[losgatosrg350dx]

its a joke, really what are they fighting for a tax extension into land

i mean seriously

cant sobody just stop em....irsael has developed since moses led his poeple, what has palestine done....leached off israel for years and now wants part of its developed region?? i mean i have family that lives there in israel, some for buissness and on grand mother...the point being its all a joke, they are fighting for pointless reasons. pointless i say!!!

[Darin]

barbarelaxe, thanks for your reaponse and contributing to the discussion.

Sorry about the comment about missles being ineffective. I'm not trying to minimalize the impact on human lives. That is tragic. I don't think we get to feel the impact at that level from our network media. Also, I guess I mean ineffctive in that it's not doing anythiing more than you said. I believe Palestine wants all of Israel land. How are these "smallish" events helping them.

A second question. When Isreal gives up land, aren't there houses there? What happens to the homeonwers? Do they get reimbursed financially when they leave their house? Who gets it?

[barbarelaxe]

Originally Posted by Darin

I say, get it on and get it over with. When the dust settles, winner gets the land. Or, shake hands and agree to be neighbors.

You are forgetting Israel already won when those teritories were taken in wars that took place from the day Israel declared independence in 1948 until 1970. a few more points. Israel did not conquer those lands from plestine. They were considered either Egyptian or Jordanian teritories. when Israel negotiated the peace agreament with Egypt, we asked them to take the gaza strip as well together with the whole sinai desert because it was theirs to begin with, but they said we can keep it to ourselves.

[losgatosrg350dx]

Originally Posted by Darin

barbarelaxe, thanks for your reaponse and contributing to the discussion.

Sorry about the comment about missles being ineffective. I'm not trying to minimalize the impact on human lives. That is tragic. I don't think we get to feel the impact at that level from our network media. Also, I guess I mean ineffctive in that it's not doing anythiing more than you said. I believe Palestine wants all of Israel land. How are these "smallish" events helping them.

A second question. When Isreal gives up land, aren't there houses there? What happens to the homeonwers? Do they get reimbursed financially when they leave their house? Who gets it?

no thats the point its all extension of developement and taxing....its a way for palestine to get what they want without having to develop it themselves

[Darin]

So tough to keep threads from getting off track. Please guys. You all know how threads get locked. There is reasonable debate and discussion. And then there is accusations and name calling. One leads to bans and thread closures.

Proper debate can persuade people without arguing.

[Rotti]

I think there is lots of guilt and atrocities from BOTH sides of that confilct but this is not the place to discuss it.

[Darin]

barbarelaxe, make a prediction. Where do you see this ending? Or do you see the borders changing in the next 10 years?