Whitesnake Slip of the Tongue

[Reaper of Doom]

Something I can't figure out is why is Vai's tone so weak on Slip of the Tongue? A friend of mine sugggested that it's because the Evolutions hadn't been invented at that point and he was using PAF Pros. Was wondering if anybody had another opinion. You listen to the 1987 album and John Sykes' playing shines through no end but SOTT it's like the bottom end is just not there!

[ibanez2005]

He used the Universe on SOTT didnt he?
I personally think his tone is huge on that album, maybe too heavy for many whitesnake fans. His website should give you some info as to what he was using around that time.

[eelblack2]

The producer way overcompensated for the natural tone of the UV by overdubbing 6's and tweaking the crap out of the mids and high mids.

Remember back then the rock 7 string was a new commodity and not very well understood nor accepted. The producer tried to make the 7 string "sound" more like a six string and that only accentuated the worst tonal characteristics (imho only) of the basswood+blaze+7+Vai's naturally wiry tone anyway.

[RCB]

I love the sound he has in Slip of the Tongue. Its a matter of tastes I guess.

[simonargento]

Originally Posted by RCB

I love the sound he has in Slip of the Tongue. Its a matter of tastes I guess.

me too, but...

[eelblack2]

Vai engineered the raw guitar recordings at his studio but Mike most certainly produced and requested stuff added/changed in the final version. It is documented in a few guitar and engineering publications from that era that Mike overdubbed 6's to balance out the sound to his ears. There is a big difference between what Vai tracked and engineered initially to what was done to the final product. Sykes had similar comments to what was done on his last album in regards to mixing after the fact.

[eviltwin]

Originally Posted by eelblack2

The producer way overcompensated for the natural tone of the UV by overdubbing 6's and tweaking the crap out of the mids and high mids.

Remember back then the rock 7 string was a new commodity and not very well understood nor accepted. The producer tried to make the 7 string "sound" more like a six string and that only accentuated the worst tonal characteristics (imho only) of the basswood+blaze+7+Vai's naturally wiry tone anyway.

AFAIK the producer/engineer was Vai himself, he took home all of the masters and remixed it. (I know the booklet mentions Mike Clink, producer) If you don't like his tone, so be it, but don't blame someone else...What really messes up Vai's tone is the keyboard overdubs and overusing the Eventide though.

IMHO the guitar tone on SOTT (1989) isn't bad at all, just compare it to "...And justice for all" (1988 ) or to Queenryche's "Empire" (1990 best I can has rubbish tone, on jet city woman it's great).

It's just the way things were back then. Producers and Engineers were just getting to grips with the transition form analogue to digital, anything produced between ca 1987 and 1992 suffers from this.

Compare "...justice" to "the black album" (1991) or "rust in peace" (1990) to "countdown to extinction" (1992) or "appetite" (1987) to "illusion" (1991)
All of the earlier examples sound like the guitars were recorded in a small bathroom.

Just for reference, EvH said the first VH album mixed properly and correctly was "Balance" (1995!), he did most of it going back and forth to his Mercedes, in stead of listening to the studio monitors

[ibanez2005]

Alot of people slate the album but i think its a great piece of work, i dont see how people can have a go at it when, really, could they do it any better? I doubt that very much, it really shows off Vai's skills as a rhythm guitar player and we dont see that side of him very often.

[ibanez2005]

I agree with the Eventide comment, he uses it way too much for my liking. The harmonies are perfect aswell, does he use the Eventide for all the harmonies?

[Batchimp RG]

Who knows if Coverdale got Steve or whoever to tone down the guitars even more- after they were done. Did Steve have the final say on how the guitars sounded in the mix?

IMO the guitars are overproduced, too much double tracking....it's as if they were fooled around with too much in the mix.

I think it's a great tone nonetheless, one of my favourites

Just my 2 cents...

[ibanez2005]

I think thats why so many Whitesnake fans shy away from it, its too "perfect", which i can see myself but its still a great album.

[dex]

Originally Posted by ibanez2005

I think thats why so many Whitesnake fans shy away from it, its too "perfect", which i can see myself but its still a great album.

Too perfect? Dude you're so wrong, I can't even begin to tell you how wrong but I'll try.

Us Whitesnake fans hate that album because.....how can I put this, because it's too Vai.
Imagine Angus Young leaving AC/DC and Vai getting all the tracks to record all guitars as he wants.
Not only that but he DOES proceed to record all guitars as if he's never heard an AC/DC album in his life.

Or imagine Billy Gibbons leaving ZZ Top and Vai getting all the tracks to record all guitars as he wants.
Not only that but he DOES proceed to record all guitars as if he's never heard a ZZ Top album in his life.
That's what happened.
Too perfect.

I realise Sykes went a little mad on the previous album (and I hate 1987 Whitesnake almost as much as SOTT) but at least his meedly bits were burried in the mix and the whole Whitesnake thing was still about the singer.
In the SOTT Vai takes centre stage and tries to eclipse Coverdale (not sure if that was a comercial decision with all the hair rock or Vai was just given too much carte blanche to do his thing but it sucks) and that's just wrong.

Now as far as the tone goes, I quite like the smooth violiny thing Vai does on SOTT but much prefer his DLR tone. Almost has that EVH* crispness to it that he completely abandoned later on.

[eelblack2]

I feel much the same way about that record Dex. I like it for the Vai factor but it definitely isnt like any other WS pre-87 record.

[ibanez2005]

When i said perfect, i didnt mean the songs or whats played on them, i mean its over produced. It suits some bands but not whitesnake.

[eelblack2]

Somewhat related, what did you guys think of the recent live album/DVD thing? Im very much liking Aldrich in the lineup.